Snakes! - Page 6

prowler · 18 November 2011, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonvaltaz

I'm quite interested in this (I too had that demo from The One)... so is it fair to say that the last version Prowler released is more or less accurate?

The RC1 disk image is as accurate as I can get it for now. I cannot salvage any more data from the disk with the equipment I have. The bad sectors have been fixed with the help of clenched and Boo Boo, and the game runs okay.

In addition, a bug which was found in Level 15 of the game has been fixed at clenched's suggestion.

A furher bug in Level 31, also discovered by clenched, has not been fixed.

The game does not appear to save Hi-Scores to disk, but we are not sure whether this is intended, or as a result of bad data in Tracks 0 or 1 of the disk image. Pickaweapon, to whom the original disk belongs, could be the only peson who would know for sure. I will reserve my judgement on the RC1 disk image until Pickaweapon has posted his thoughts.

In the meantime, download it and give it a try on your A500 or in emulation!

clenched · 18 November 2011, 23:03

antonvaltaz - Was that an original DEMO disk and is "had" past tense correct? The reason I ask is because I have been able to reproduce a lockup on the DEMO (level 5) without artificially causing it. So unless the game has some sort of protection, I would say that putting the original Level 15 mine back on the board would yield the most accurate copy available.
I am working on some snake anti-venom to combat this bug which will mean changing 2 bytes of code and putting level 15 back the way it was. Unfortunately, that also means the game is no longer original. I guess it depends on prowler.

prowler · 19 November 2011, 00:13

I have nothing but admiration for the work you have done on this, clenched. It would never have come this far so quickly without your help, mate.

I really wish that we could get some input from pickaweapon at this point, but in the meantime how about we work on two versions: an original one, and a bugfixed one?

clenched · 19 November 2011, 01:13

The culprit causing this grief was found by using none other than the PC demo. On the PC, these longwords being cleared flag a location so a mine won't reappear after exploding. Neither the Amiga DEMO or FULL game work that way. The mines are always replaced. Moreover, when the snake's head position computed, a multiplication by 80 (columns) rather than 20 occurs causing other memory to be cleared wildly. Here are the experimental "fixes" I have been testing with 100% success so far.
Change on the right.

00051ED8: 08 30 restore Level 15 to original state.

STOP: for the most accurate copy and live with bugs.

00009595: 50 14 correct multiplier for blue snake
0000A4F9: 50 14 correct multiplier for yellow snake

No lockups, bad gfx that I've been able to find. Looking back as far as WIP1, I don't remember a single guru.

prowler · 19 November 2011, 01:21

Great work, mate!

I'll attach disk images representing the two 'branches' here tomorrow.

Retro1234 · 19 November 2011, 13:19

Well Done Guys

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowler

but in the meantime how about we work on two versions: an original one, and a bugfixed one?

I think this is a good idea

prowler · 19 November 2011, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I think this is a good idea

The ayes have it!

RC2 and later archives will contain both 'original' and 'bugfixed' variants of the disk image.

NfernalNfluence · 20 November 2011, 02:22

pickaweapon.... i was thinking to myself where have i heard that phrase? i know exactly. midnight resistance

pickaweapon · 12 December 2011, 15:29

OMG! I'm terribly sorry all, especially to you Prowler for going AWOL especially since I've been holding up your great work! Haven't had a chance to try the fruits of your labour just yet. I've just been catching up on this thread. Had no idea how much hard work you've been putting in - a million thanks to you and everyone else for your tireless efforts!
Regarding the high-score table saves, please could you clarify what you mean by saving scores? I always switched write-protect on all my disks so I wouldn't be literally saving the tables. But if you mean that the scores aren't saved into MEMORY after each game I'm pretty sure it did. Me and my siblings were always trying to beat each other's scores and I'm sure I remember my name residing at the top of the table. I asked my sister and she's pretty sure of this too. There's a chance I'm wrong on this but don't remember a problem with the hi-scores.
NfernalNfluence, you are correct mate. Midnight Resistance, CLASSIC!

prowler · 12 December 2011, 21:34

Hi pickaweapon,

I had begun to wonder, so it's great to see that you're still alive and well. Nothing else matters, so don't worry about it. No apology necessary.

It was very difficult to salvage the first two tracks of this disk properly due to some particularly flaky sectors and they still may not be 100% correct.

It is fairly common, if not usual, to be able to save Hi-Scores to the disk, and I had wondered if the problem with those first two tracks was preventing this or whether there might be a hot key combination for that. It's not particularly important, because it doesn't seem to affect the gameplay.

Well, I'll leave you to enjoy revisiting the game now, and I look forward to hearing your impressions when you're ready.

pickaweapon · 13 December 2011, 02:41

The reason I never saved my scores was because of the only time when I forgot to write protect a disk before loading it up. I only got to play Quick n' Silva just the once before the score auto-saved and corrupted my disk

Gutted I was.
Hopefully load up the adf tomorrow when I get a chance, and report back. Caint wait! Cheers matey, such a clever lot you all are!

pickaweapon · 23 December 2011, 21:43

I've had a play of the last Debugged version you uploaded Prowler. Well done and a huge thankyou for such amazing work. How talented you are! Was great seeing these levels again after so long. Again, not sure how reliable my memory is but yes, it did feel a little strange being presented with a blank hi-score table at the end. Didn't seem to click with my memory of it. Makes no difference to me personally and it doesn't ruin the game

prowler · 23 December 2011, 22:03

It's great to hear that you still like the game after all these years! It makes it all the more worthwhile.

I didn't recover the game alone. Clenched did some amazing things in the WinUAE debugger to find discrepancies between the full and demo versions of the game which helped fix some of the bad sectors, and Boo Boo made some helpful suggestions to get us on the right track.

It seems that the game may originally have been written for the PC and then later ported to the Amiga, since Clenched was able to derive the debugged version by analysing the code for the PC demo.

All's well that ends well!

I will leave the ADF images attached to my posts here - both the release candidates and the WIP versions - in case they can help recover and/or debug other games in the future.

pickaweapon · 23 December 2011, 23:32

I stand corrected, a massive thankyou to all who devoted so much of their precious time to recover this game and everyone who has shown an interest in this forum. I am amazed and deeply grateful to you all. Had a go on my own with the rusty ol' cursor keys and got to about level 16 with no problems. Caint wait to invite the siblings over to settle old scores. A very Merry Christmas to you all!

clenched · 23 December 2011, 23:45

pickaweapon - Don't let prowler buffalo you! He did all the heavy lifting on this job. For my part, I was only a playtester slash flunkie.

Boo Boo can speak for Boo Boo.

prowler · 23 December 2011, 23:52

clenched - you're too modest. It's an enviable skill you have too!

s2325 · 15 December 2012, 13:05

[ Show youtube player ]

DamienD · 09 January 2016, 16:19

Hey guys,

I like to keep my ADF organised so with the file "Debugged.adf" in the archive "Snakes-RC2.zip" I'm going to rename...

What do you think is most appropriate:

"Snakes (1992)(Excellent Design)(f EAB).adf" {as this is what's shown in the title screen}

or

"Snakes (1993)(Victrix)(f EAB).adf" {as this information was posted here: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=770201&postcount=28}

hipoonios · 09 January 2016, 17:20

This Snake was new to me. It looks pretty good. Good work fixing the disk! Can all 50 levels be played now?

And i see this plays different than other snake games. Here it seems you must collect the score bonuses to get to next level?

prowler · 10 January 2016, 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hey guys,

I like to keep my ADF organised so with the file "Debugged.adf" in the archive "Snakes-RC2.zip" I'm going to rename...

What do you think is most appropriate:

"Snakes (1992)(Excellent Design)(f EAB).adf" {as this is what's shown in the title screen}

or

"Snakes (1993)(Victrix)(f EAB).adf" {as this information was posted here: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=770201&postcount=28}

I would prefer your second suggestion. myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

This Snake was new to me. It looks pretty good. Good work fixing the disk! Can all 50 levels be played now?

And i see this plays different than other snake games. Here it seems you must collect the score bonuses to get to next level?

Yes, you can play all 50 levels. The only drawback is that you can't save your high scores.

19 November 2011, 01:13	#104
clenched Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gainesville U.S.A. Posts: 771	The culprit causing this grief was found by using none other than the PC demo. On the PC, these longwords being cleared flag a location so a mine won't reappear after exploding. Neither the Amiga DEMO or FULL game work that way. The mines are always replaced. Moreover, when the snake's head position computed, a multiplication by 80 (columns) rather than 20 occurs causing other memory to be cleared wildly. Here are the experimental "fixes" I have been testing with 100% success so far. Change on the right. 00051ED8: 08 30 restore Level 15 to original state. STOP: for the most accurate copy and live with bugs. 00009595: 50 14 correct multiplier for blue snake 0000A4F9: 50 14 correct multiplier for yellow snake No lockups, bad gfx that I've been able to find. Looking back as far as WIP1, I don't remember a single guru. Last edited by clenched; 19 November 2011 at 03:28. Reason: one the too many

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18 November 2011, 23:03	#102
clenched Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gainesville U.S.A. Posts: 771	antonvaltaz - Was that an original DEMO disk and is "had" past tense correct? The reason I ask is because I have been able to reproduce a lockup on the DEMO (level 5) without artificially causing it. So unless the game has some sort of protection, I would say that putting the original Level 15 mine back on the board would yield the most accurate copy available. I am working on some snake anti-venom to combat this bug which will mean changing 2 bytes of code and putting level 15 back the way it was. Unfortunately, that also means the game is no longer original. I guess it depends on prowler.

19 November 2011, 00:13	#103
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	I have nothing but admiration for the work you have done on this, clenched. It would never have come this far so quickly without your help, mate. I really wish that we could get some input from pickaweapon at this point, but in the meantime how about we work on two versions: an original one, and a bugfixed one?

19 November 2011, 01:21	#105
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Great work, mate! I'll attach disk images representing the two 'branches' here tomorrow.

20 November 2011, 02:22	#108
NfernalNfluence Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: living among the Moai Posts: 219	pickaweapon.... i was thinking to myself where have i heard that phrase? i know exactly. midnight resistance

12 December 2011, 15:29	#109
pickaweapon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: London Posts: 51	OMG! I'm terribly sorry all, especially to you Prowler for going AWOL especially since I've been holding up your great work! Haven't had a chance to try the fruits of your labour just yet. I've just been catching up on this thread. Had no idea how much hard work you've been putting in - a million thanks to you and everyone else for your tireless efforts! Regarding the high-score table saves, please could you clarify what you mean by saving scores? I always switched write-protect on all my disks so I wouldn't be literally saving the tables. But if you mean that the scores aren't saved into MEMORY after each game I'm pretty sure it did. Me and my siblings were always trying to beat each other's scores and I'm sure I remember my name residing at the top of the table. I asked my sister and she's pretty sure of this too. There's a chance I'm wrong on this but don't remember a problem with the hi-scores. NfernalNfluence, you are correct mate. Midnight Resistance, CLASSIC!

12 December 2011, 21:34	#110
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi pickaweapon, I had begun to wonder, so it's great to see that you're still alive and well. Nothing else matters, so don't worry about it. No apology necessary. It was very difficult to salvage the first two tracks of this disk properly due to some particularly flaky sectors and they still may not be 100% correct. It is fairly common, if not usual, to be able to save Hi-Scores to the disk, and I had wondered if the problem with those first two tracks was preventing this or whether there might be a hot key combination for that. It's not particularly important, because it doesn't seem to affect the gameplay. Well, I'll leave you to enjoy revisiting the game now, and I look forward to hearing your impressions when you're ready.

13 December 2011, 02:41	#111
pickaweapon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: London Posts: 51	The reason I never saved my scores was because of the only time when I forgot to write protect a disk before loading it up. I only got to play Quick n' Silva just the once before the score auto-saved and corrupted my disk Gutted I was. Hopefully load up the adf tomorrow when I get a chance, and report back. Caint wait! Cheers matey, such a clever lot you all are!

23 December 2011, 21:43	#112
pickaweapon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: London Posts: 51	I've had a play of the last Debugged version you uploaded Prowler. Well done and a huge thankyou for such amazing work. How talented you are! Was great seeing these levels again after so long. Again, not sure how reliable my memory is but yes, it did feel a little strange being presented with a blank hi-score table at the end. Didn't seem to click with my memory of it. Makes no difference to me personally and it doesn't ruin the game

23 December 2011, 22:03	#113
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	It's great to hear that you still like the game after all these years! It makes it all the more worthwhile. I didn't recover the game alone. Clenched did some amazing things in the WinUAE debugger to find discrepancies between the full and demo versions of the game which helped fix some of the bad sectors, and Boo Boo made some helpful suggestions to get us on the right track. It seems that the game may originally have been written for the PC and then later ported to the Amiga, since Clenched was able to derive the debugged version by analysing the code for the PC demo. All's well that ends well! I will leave the ADF images attached to my posts here - both the release candidates and the WIP versions - in case they can help recover and/or debug other games in the future.

23 December 2011, 23:32	#114
pickaweapon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: London Posts: 51	I stand corrected, a massive thankyou to all who devoted so much of their precious time to recover this game and everyone who has shown an interest in this forum. I am amazed and deeply grateful to you all. Had a go on my own with the rusty ol' cursor keys and got to about level 16 with no problems. Caint wait to invite the siblings over to settle old scores. A very Merry Christmas to you all!

23 December 2011, 23:45	#115
clenched Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gainesville U.S.A. Posts: 771	pickaweapon - Don't let prowler buffalo you! He did all the heavy lifting on this job. For my part, I was only a playtester slash flunkie. Boo Boo can speak for Boo Boo.

23 December 2011, 23:52	#116
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	clenched - you're too modest. It's an enviable skill you have too!

15 December 2012, 13:05	#117
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	[ Show youtube player ]

09 January 2016, 16:19	#118
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	Hey guys, I like to keep my ADF organised so with the file "Debugged.adf" in the archive "Snakes-RC2.zip" I'm going to rename... What do you think is most appropriate: "Snakes (1992)(Excellent Design)(f EAB).adf" {as this is what's shown in the title screen} or "Snakes (1993)(Victrix)(f EAB).adf" {as this information was posted here: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=770201&postcount=28}

09 January 2016, 17:20	#119
hipoonios Amiga Hardcore Gamer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,207	This Snake was new to me. It looks pretty good. Good work fixing the disk! Can all 50 levels be played now? And i see this plays different than other snake games. Here it seems you must collect the score bonuses to get to next level?

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