Any chance of Zips rather than HDFs?

[Macca]

Just a thought thats been going through my head recently.

I'd much prefer having all the files in a zip so I can use it on the Amiga and WinUAE side (unzip then mount as a folder).

I just feel that it's an extra step all the time as if I use WinUAE I always end up copying it to a folder and if I want to use it on the Amiga I always end up unzipping the HDF then rezipping it to a file.

The HDF is already zipped as well so maybe easier for you (Mr B) to just do it once.

Just something thats niggling me - I don't mind really but I think it would be easier.



M.

[Bloodwych]

The funny thing is, the ClassicWB started life as a 13.6MB zip that was copied across from my real Amiga to a PC via a parallel cable. I wanted to back my install up and use it in WinUAE.

I then got the idea of providing some dedicated packs based on mine for real Amiga users, as AIAB and Amiga forever were for emulation setups only. Thus the ClassicWB packs were born, all the way back in 2002.

The packs continued to be released in ZIP format for many years, before finally going across to HDFs. Why?

Well, I always develop the packs on HDF files to ensure 100% compatibility with a real Amiga's file system. This was important back in the day, as PC directories didn't have 100% compatibility in comparison to HDFs (some missing file attributes, and file name length issues). I think today with the NTFS implimentation this is less of an issue, but the file name length could still pose problems if I named something wrong and it got copied across to a real Amiga.

In order to avoid any potential issues, I still use HDFs for development as these are for real Amiga's, even if one day we may end up with no real Amiga's to run them on!

Also, as more packs became available, I found it a huge hassle to keep on zipping up the HDFs contents. So I thought, why not just give people HDF files and it solves all issues - guaranteed real Amiga compatibility and I don't have to ZIP up all the different packs contents myself.

Plus I feel HDFs are much more efficient way to run Workbench, as you don't have hundreds of tiny files clogging up your Windows partition.

That was back when I was making a lot of changes. Now that they don't change that much and I have a much faster PC and connection, I may go back to offering ZIPs but haven't decided yet.

And this here ends the story!

[alexh]

I'd like to see how ZIP would cope with filenames such as: amber_*

[Bloodwych]

Yeah, Windows doesn't like certain characters.

I think AUX is another that windows can't cope with, comes as standard in Workbench, plus one or two others.

When you are copying the files from the provided HDF to a PC directory in WinUAE, you are actually avoiding problems as WinUAE gets around these limitations for you in the way it handles the files under emulation.

If you were to directly unzip a pack into Windows (rather than onto a real Amiga file system or from within emulation as mentioned above), you would get errors. I forgot, that's another reason why I started providing HDFs as people would directly unpack the ZIPS and tell me they were corrupt!

[Macca]

My experience I guess is slightly different. I'm also currently using Vista if that makes any difference. When I have, in the past, used WinUAE I have always used it as a directory on my PC. Why? Because I can manipulate files better. I can UnLHA lots of stuff. On the Amiga side it is a particular problem writing ADF's as there file names are ridiculously long (especially the SPS / etc titles).

On the PC I can copy / rename them in seconds and unarchive them.

Its just easier for me - though maybe not easier for all users.


M.

[Bloodwych]

I can understand why you use directories, they are very convenient. Many people do and it's down to personal preference. WinUAE can handle mounted directories and any incompatibilities fine so you won't have problems and of course no space limitations too.

However from my side HDFs are better for the reasons already mentioned. For instance, try and rename a file in Vista AUX or use a character like Alex mentioned - *. Certain characters that are used in Amiga file systems are not compatible with NTFS, so providing a ZIP for people to directly unpack outside of WinUAE will cause potential problems.

It's better that you create the mounted directory yourself through WinUAE, as you've been doing, as it avoids any issues and helps me be a little more lazy when doing releases!

[Macca]

Aye I was looking at being lazy myself!

Damn just going to have to do it myself *sigh*



M.

[OddbOd]

I'm not sure that illegal filenames are much of an issue now that WinUAE natively supports archive mounting, ironically there's no longer any practical necessity for Windows to reserve characters or pseudo-device names as most of the legacy support is implemented via emulation (i.e. it's not as if copy con: blah.txt works like it did under DOS even if the effect continues to be the same).

As far as an HDF being more "efficient" than simply storing many small files in a directory, it sounds counter-intuitive to me that you would gain "efficiency" by adding an extra filesystem layer.

Please bear in mind that the points above are merely discussion points and certainly not of enough importance to justify changing CWB's packaging method back to ZIP.

Originally Posted by alexh

I'd like to see how ZIP would cope with filenames such as: amber_*

Why would it cause a problem? Asterisks in filenames are perfectly valid inside a ZIP.

[Bloodwych]

You make some valid points oddbod, but in efficient I meant not having thousands of tiny Amiga files to defrag and virus scan in Windows or copy to a new source, which is much slower than dealing with one large file. I wasn't really looking at it from being better from within emulation, but outside of it.

A HDF is in many ways inferior, almost old fashioned, but it somehow feels closer to the real deal if you know what I mean. Strange eh?; logic is not for humans!

[Macca]

Nor is it for Wychs!

I find it easier to manage with the flat file system rather than HDF's (as mentioned before because I can simply drag and drop files into the folders)

Strange how different peoples perceptions are on the same thing!



M.