OS 3.2 WBstartup issues

[rabidgerry]

Has anyone else had any problem with Wbstartup folder in OS 3.2?

The issues I am having are affecting a few different programs.

Basically if I stick ClicktoFront in WBStartup it will not only just load up and that is the end of it I get messages saying waiting for program to return.

The way I got around this was to stick a line in user-startup sequence.

But then I got the same issue when I went to add ScreenTime into WBStartup. I then have to click cancel to get the message of the screen.

I also then have a similar issue with Copper-Demon which will constantly load the preferences up on screen with every boot which is not normal.

Am I supposed to add lines into the user-startup script to start these utilities each boot? Does anyone else have this issue? Or has anyone a solution? I thought the point of WBStartup was so you can stick programs like these and they will boot automatically whilst in that folder and there is no messages to click through or constant loading of the applications preferences.

Interested to see if anyon has some fixes for this or not.

[No.3]

It's not necessarily connected with your problem, but why do you use a Click2Front from 1987 when OS 3.2 has it's own Click2Front tool ?!

Copper-Demon I used 20 years ago, but most likely something is wrong with it's preferences file => remove it from WB-Startup, run SnoopDos and then run Copper-Demon by hand. Perhaps Copper-Demon does not find it's preferences file.

Edit: or perhaps there is a "ToolType" in the Icon which forces the Window to pop up at startup.

[Matt_H]

Indeed, as No.3 says, you somehow ended up with an ancient 1.3-era version of ClickToFront. Replace it with the one that comes with 3.2 - found in SYS:Tools/Commodities.

I'm not familiar with Copper-Demon, but check the icon tooltypes. Is there a CX_POPUP=YES line in there? Change it to CX_POPUP=NO - and make sure the line isn't commented out (with parentheses).

The "Program has not returned" windows can be prevented by adding the tooltype DONOTWAIT to their icons.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by No.3

It's not necessarily connected with your problem, but why do you use a Click2Front from 1987 when OS 3.2 has it's own Click2Front tool ?!

Copper-Demon I used 20 years ago, but most likely something is wrong with it's preferences file => remove it from WB-Startup, run SnoopDos and then run Copper-Demon by hand. Perhaps Copper-Demon does not find it's preferences file.

Edit: or perhaps there is a "ToolType" in the Icon which forces the Window to pop up at startup.

That was the clicktofront that popped up in my search when I was looking for clicktofront on aminet. I looked into this and I saw other people complaining about the lack of a clicktofront ability in OS3.2 so naturally I went and downloaded the additional program. 1987? There was no indication it was that old in the LHA. Also it works quite well. It does suffer from this same WBStartup issue.

But Now I now click2front is built in OS3.2 I'll see if I can implement that instead.

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Indeed, as No.3 says, you somehow ended up with an ancient 1.3-era version of ClickToFront. Replace it with the one that comes with 3.2 - found in SYS:Tools/Commodities.

I'm not familiar with Copper-Demon, but check the icon tooltypes. Is there a CX_POPUP=YES line in there? Change it to CX_POPUP=NO - and make sure the line isn't commented out (with parentheses).

The "Program has not returned" windows can be prevented by adding the tooltype DONOTWAIT to their icons.

Ok thanks for that. I will have a look and see if there is a tooltype labelled as such and add in the click to front from commodities.

[Daedalus]

In OS3.9 and 3.9 you don't even need to add the Tooltype - the Icon Information window has a checkmark in the Icon tab called "Wait Until Finished" or similar. Simply turn that off and it will do the tooltype stuff for you in the background.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

In OS3.9 and 3.9 you don't even need to add the Tooltype - the Icon Information window has a checkmark in the Icon tab called "Wait Until Finished" or similar. Simply turn that off and it will do the tooltype stuff for you in the background.

Sorry Daedalus, where is checkmark in the Icon tab called "Wait Until Finished, I have never seen it on OS 3.9.

EDIT = I had misunderstood, I thought it was a command in the tooltype !

the tab "Wait Until Finished" also exists on OS 3.9 BB4


I have always seen "DONOTWAIT" which in OS 3.9 BB4 "is hidden"

[tero]

In 3.9 bb1 it's on the icon tab

[thomas]

Yes, and it's only shown for icons in WBStartup. If you move the same icon out of WBStartup and then open icon information, the checkbox is no longer shown.

[Daedalus]

Yep, it's a nice little quality of life addition as part of RAWBInfo. It's present in 3.9BB2 as well, though I don't use BB3/4 so I couldn't say whether it's been modified or removed there.

[No.3]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

But Now I now click2front is built in OS3.2 I'll see if I can implement that instead.

hehe, well, OS 3.0 already had a Click2Front tool, over 30 years ago!

[Channel-Z]

Originally Posted by thomas

Yes, and it's only shown for icons in WBStartup. If you move the same icon out of WBStartup and then open icon information, the checkbox is no longer shown.

I never knew that until this post

[thomas]

I find it more irritating than helpful that the checkbox is only visible if the icon resides in WBStartup but the tooltype is hidden in any case.

[Thomas Richter]

I agree. The Os should be consistent, and the concepts should be easy to understand. If certain options only appear in certain situations, that's a "surprise factor" which is hard to motivate to the user.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Yes but hiding DONOTWAIT leads inexperienced users holes in the road, some not seeing it, believe it is not necessary to add DONOWAIT, others not seeing it add a second one, consider that DONOTWAIT becomes visible if you move the icon to an OS other than OS 3.9 BB 1/2/3/4

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Replace it with the one that comes with 3.2 - found in SYS:Tools/Commodities.

Done this and all good. Click to front working well after I got it from "commodities"

Originally Posted by Matt_H

I'm not familiar with Copper-Demon, but check the icon tooltypes. Is there a CX_POPUP=YES line in there? Change it to CX_POPUP=NO - and make sure the line isn't commented out (with parentheses).

The "Program has not returned" windows can be prevented by adding the tooltype DONOTWAIT to their icons.

Doing these both worked for me as you described. But Daedalus fix also worked by checkmark in the Icon tab called "Wait Until Finished" and un checking it.

The copper now doesn't pop up at all however it does not work correctly as it wont allow for colour adjustment like it does for my 3.1 builds.

Originally Posted by Daedalus

In OS3.9 and 3.9 you don't even need to add the Tooltype - the Icon Information window has a checkmark in the Icon tab called "Wait Until Finished" or similar. Simply turn that off and it will do the tooltype stuff for you in the background.

Worked as described, thanks Rob!!

[Daedalus]

It's one of those things where I don't think there's a right answer. Consistency would suggest that the checkbox is present and functioning even when the icon isn't in WBStartup, which I feel would be unintuitive to someone who doesn't know its function. It doesn't do any waiting, or care when a program is finished, when it's enabled or disabled on a program that's elsewhere on the system. And the other side of that is to not have it at all and go back to using the tooltypes manually. Consistent at least, but again, not all that intuitive if inexperienced users is your concern.

I think it got the right balance as it is and fit well with my way of thinking, with context-specific GUI options standing in for the tooltypes in the WBStartup situation(CX_PRIORITY is another one that gets similar treatment by becoming a Priority numerical gadget for icons in WBStartup). But everyone's different.

[Thomas Richter]

It is one of the decisions the user is supposed to make, but cannot make without knowing the program. Instead, the program should know, not the user.

Does it actually make sense to *have* the workbench waiting for the program to return? At times we had disk drives, it would have helped to stop the disk drive to go mad, but does it make sense nowadays?

The default thus should be not to wait, unless the user really wants to, for whatever reason.

A better way would be if the program would have a way to learn whether it was run from WBStartup, and then signal to the workbench that waiting is required. In the simplest case, by the author providing a suitable default icon that includes a magic tool type that instructs waiting.

There are similar "non-sensical" settings. Why does the user had to indicate (in 3.9) whether icons can be in fast ram? How could the user know? It requires sufficient education of the user, quite a bit of background knowledge, and an idea what is running on the system.

Maximal file name length is a similar nonsense settings. How can the user know what that could be? Consider I insert a FAT floppy in one of the drives. Does that mean that I need to change the workbench setting now to 12 (8+1+3), and change it back if I remove the floppy?

MASK and MAXTRANSFER mount options are the same problem. It's as if a vendor says "dear user, our driver has a bug, use this as workaround"... The driver should fix this, not the file system instructed by the user.