Amiga 500/1200 and LCD display

[wlcina]

Hello,

its possible to connect amiga 500/1200 to LCD display without flickerfickers or any expensive hardware ? I think connector only ... AFAIK amiga have digital outputs (rgb) so its possible to conect them directly to LCD ?

A few years ago I found a good crt monitor - multisync (I dont know what this meant) and I connect red blue and green signal to monitor - and voila - monitor shows amiga screens - but they was floating up and down, I connect another connector - i think - vertical synch - to green signal and everything went ok.

[Npl]

Nope, no digital output on Amigas.
the Amiga 1200 might actually work if you use the VGAOnly-Driver and use DblPal or DblNtsc. But it will only work in Workbench, most games still use PAL and wont show

[wlcina]

maybe I am wrong, but I found something: read pls: http://www.matthewdesantis.com/a500sm.html - here is part where is mentioned DIGITAL RGB, and this is pinout of video connector : http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-db23video.shtml there is digital outputs for colors - digital red green blue.

[Syko]

YES, ALL Amigas have digital RGB, they are pins 7, 8 and 9 on the video connector...

don't have any info on the signals though But if you figure them as digital TV video signals you won't be far wrong. Unfortunately PC LCD monitors probably wont display them, but LCD TV with digital input should...

[Ironman]

How about inexpencive hardware? I've noticed a kind of tuner for svga monitors becoming rather cheap lately, and this little gizmo has a built in tv tuner, inputs for composite video, SCART input (don't know if theres RGB here, but one could hope) SVHS video, SVGA and outputs for SVGA and composite video. Meaning that you could run your PC, Amiga and console off one PC screen, and I guess that would include one of the new tft screens...

[a_petri]

Originally Posted by wlcina

maybe I am wrong, but I found something: read pls: http://www.matthewdesantis.com/a500sm.html - here is part where is mentioned DIGITAL RGB, and this is pinout of video connector : http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-db23video.shtml there is digital outputs for colors - digital red green blue.

Alas, these signals are practically unusable. They are leftovers from the original Amiga 1000 design, and they were originally intended for IBM CGA compatible monitors (which were also compatible with the Commodore 128). See http://www.thule.no/haynie/systems/a...docs/video.txt for the technical details.

[a_petri]

Originally Posted by Ironman

How about inexpencive hardware? I've noticed a kind of tuner for svga monitors becoming rather cheap lately, and this little gizmo has a built in tv tuner, inputs for composite video, SCART input (don't know if theres RGB here, but one could hope) SVHS video, SVGA and outputs for SVGA and composite video. Meaning that you could run your PC, Amiga and console off one PC screen, and I guess that would include one of the new tft screens...

It can be a good idea... however, you should check whether it can actually cope with the video output of the Amiga with decent quality.

(A few months ago , when I had to present some old Amiga applications from a real Amiga 2000 as a show occasion on a local computer & electronics fair, I tried several such video-to-(S)VGA converter boxes offered by their distributors - various Grandtec models mostly -, and none of them was very good.

The colors were usually a bit washed off, and the picture became somewhat unstable after a longer period of time; it seemed that the boxes were prone to overheating, so I had to power them on only immediately before my stage time and keep my presentation short.)

[Amiga1992]

With DIGITAL RGB you would only have a max of 16 colors. Analog permits the myriad of colors all Amigas have.

The monitor you found that worked straight away was a multiSCAN monitor, that went as low as 15Khz of scan rate. Today's monitors (including LCD screens) won't go below 30 or 31Khz (28 if you are lucky, then you can use DblPal/DblNTSC modes)

You have a few choices here

*Find and buy an old multiscan monitor that goes down to 15Khz as well as upping to 31. I wouldn't recommend buying old monitors to anyone

*Get an Amiga scandoubler/flickerfixer, so you can use any monitor (some LCDs do not like the signals sent by sd/ff s, though.)

*get an XRGB2 so you can use any console/computer you might have with any monitor you might have lying around (with added hardware scanlines effect, if you wanty to!) The most expensive solution but a definitive winner if you have more than 3 or 4 systems.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by a_petri

Alas, these signals are practically unusable. They are leftovers from the original Amiga 1000 design, and they were originally intended for IBM CGA compatible monitors (which were also compatible with the Commodore 128). See http://www.thule.no/haynie/systems/a...docs/video.txt for the technical details.

The colour depth is limited to 4 bits. I wouldn't use those if I was anyone. :-)

The original poster's question can be answered: there are TFT panels that are capable of syncing down to 15kHz horizontal. You just need to find one. Usually they are for industrial applications - thus the price may be more than you'll be set back for a SD + normal TFT..

Perhaps a TFT TV with a SCART input.. Maybe some TFT TVs can sync down even from the VGA connector? I think they scandouble the signal internally anyway for the panel.

Normal TFT monitors are so cheap nowadays that I'm quite willing to bet that you won't be able to find a better deal in a low-syncing TFT monitor or a TFT TV.

[wlcina]

ok, resolution is: I have to find monitor or lcd, where minimum horizontal refresh rate is 15KHz ? I have one lcd - 31Khz minimum rate :-( and 21" monitor with 30Khz minimum rate.


OMG XRGB2 costs 250 euros :-(
http://www.gamefreax.com/lshop,showd...051894283,.htm

[Npl]

Originally Posted by wlcina

ok, resolution is: I have to find monitor or lcd, where minimum horizontal refresh rate is 15KHz ? I have one lcd - 31Khz minimum rate :-( and 21" monitor with 30Khz minimum rate.


OMG XRGB2 costs 250 euros :-(
http://www.gamefreax.com/lshop,showd...051894283,.htm

Even back in the time of 1990 all VGA-Monitors had 30kHz minimum - those that didnt were called Multisync Monitors.
DblPal is 28Khz if I remember right and the VGAOnly Driver tweaks the Rate to be 2-3Khz higher - but its useless for 99% of the Games since they dont run in DblPAL (Biing! and some simple WB-Driven Games beeing the exception)

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by wlcina

OMG XRGB2 costs 250 euros :-(
http://www.gamefreax.com/lshop,showd...051894283,.htm

As I said, the XRGB2 is a highly professional solution suited mostly to those owning many systems. If you just want to use your amiga, this is overkil. But someone who has a myriad of different homecompuuters, consoles, arcade PSBs etc, can get a LOT out of a device like this, since you can connect most ANYTHING to a VGA monitor.

and the scanlines rock



VGAonly driver! i'm interested in that, thanks for the tipster

[wlcina]

Hi again,

AKIRA: xrgb2 is japanese only :-( I ask vendor and they told me that xrgb2 has japanese RGB output and it works only in 110V/60Hz

I found Eizo Flexscan monitor : parameters:
Scanning Frequency H: 27 - 86 kHz V: 50 - 160 Hz
Input Signals RGB Analog
Input Terminal D-Sub 15-pin and BNC x 5 (switchable)

Will it works on my amiga 500+ ? (for games) or horizontal frequency must be at least 15kHz ?

This monitor has 5 bnc connectors - 3 of them are RGB signals 1 is horizontal freq and one is vertical freq. maybe amiga could be connected to this connectors ?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by wlcina

Hi again,

AKIRA: xrgb2 is japanese only :-( I ask vendor and they told me that xrgb2 has japanese RGB output and it works only in 110V/60Hz

That's absolute BOLLOCKS you know?

You can use a stepdown converter like with any 110V machine. It's NOT japanese only and the fact that it outputs RGB means that you can connect it to ANY RGB device, is not like there's "japanese RGB" and "european RGB" and the like.

Tell the vendor to sod off and learn what he has to sale He probably told you that because he's out of stock, the XRGB2 is not produced anymore for a couple of years now.

[Computolio]

By "Japanese RGB" he means a different pinout. Signals are the same, but you'll have to build an adapter cable.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Computolio

By "Japanese RGB" he means a different pinout. Signals are the same, but you'll have to build an adapter cable.

http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/rgb21pinj.htm

Thankfully it's a normal scart connector with the pins jumbled up. Of course could be hard to find on the other side of the pond, but omnipresent here in Europe.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by wlcina

I found Eizo Flexscan monitor : parameters:
Scanning Frequency H: 27 - 86 kHz V: 50 - 160 Hz
Input Signals RGB Analog
Input Terminal D-Sub 15-pin and BNC x 5 (switchable)

Will it works on my amiga 500+ ? (for games) or horizontal frequency must be at least 15kHz ?

You can try, but probably the monitor won't sync down to 15kHz.

There are some Eizo Flexscan models that do, so the monitor just might be out of spec and it just might work. No guarantees, however! Prepare to be disappointed. :-/

[Amiga1992]

It clearly says the horizontal scan rates for it go from 27KHz to 86KHz, so I think it won't work. It would run on AGA DblPAL and DblNTSC modes, though. but not on your A500 with any sort of game.

[wizard66]

Originally Posted by Akira

It clearly says the horizontal scan rates for it go from 27KHz to 86KHz, so I think it won't work. It would run on AGA DblPAL and DblNTSC modes, though. but not on your A500 with any sort of game.

look at this one
http://www.kme.co.uk/29LM123(41UN).pdf


Horizontal scan: 15 - 48 Khz..

from the site http://www.kme.co.uk