Technical question about C64

[Shatterhand]

I never had an C64, as they weren't popular here in Brazil, so maybe this is a stupid question for your C64 users, but I have no idea, so..

I've seen some different kinds of sprites in C64 games, and I would like to know what's the difference about those kinds of sprites.

As example, I'll use a game that seems to be a favourite among C64 players.. Mayhem In Monsterland

Take a look at the screenshot. The main hero sprite (Inside the red circle) is very clear and detailed, he almost seems out of place in the game, and the enemies sprites (Inside the yellow circles) look more pixelled and ugly.

What's the difference between both sprites?


Attachment Removed

One was drawn pixely and one wasn't. That's the best answer I could give...Cause they felt like it (Of course, the baddies could've been drawn smaller and stretched in real time to save memory)

They could have made the baddies look smooth as well. There wasn't much stopping them

It's a bad example using Mayhem In Monsterland since it's not your average C64 game. This game pushed the machine to it's limits

[RetroMan]

I remember, that I have read an interview with the programmers of MAYHEM IN MONSTERLAND back those days and that was exactly the same question that they had to answer back then I think it was something like : "Only the main character of the game should look nice and sweet ....."
Me personally thinks, that after drawing the main sprite, they didn´t had much time left to draw the "bad guys" for the game

[Toni Wilen]

Main sprite is probably made from two overlapping sprites, one for black outline (using 2-color sprite, 320x200 resolution), the other for colors (using 4-color sprite, 160x200 resolution only).

[Amiga1992]

Toni nailed it methinks. Looks at teh baddies, they use the common 160x200 pixel (a sideways-stretched pixel ratio) while the main sprite seems to have square pixels for outlines.

This really is pushing it, I had no clue you could use both modes at once. Can you believe I NEVER played this game! I must do it, NOW

Originally posted by Akira
This really is pushing it, I had no clue you could use both modes at once. Can you believe I NEVER played this game! I must do it, NOW

OMG! My all time favourite C64 game. I should whoop your ass for delaying it....And you'd better play it on a real C64!

[Amiga1992]

You can bet your arse, you know what I think:

"Nothing Beats the Real Thing!"©

I am in the process of building an XE1541 cable. I won't spoil this game on an emulator!

[RetroMan]

@Akira

Heyhey, I got the copyright for that, but it has to be : "YOU CANNOT BEAT THE REAL THING !"©

hehe, btw. X1541 Cable is very easy to set up ..... just had to build a new one, cause my old got lost

[Amiga1992]

No no, you got copyright for THAT phrase", Nothing Beats the Real Thing© is mine

And "You can't beat the real thing" is copyright by Coca Cola so nerr

[Kodoichi]

/me beats up everybody in this thread©

[Shatterhand]

I haven't seen this only in Mayhem...

Back To The Future 2 also has this kind of stuff, there are some sprites that are much more detailed than the others, and you can clearly see that (much like you can clearly see the difference between the goodguy and the badguys in Mayhem)

But I didn't even know about this stuff of 2 different sprites models and all.. Already helped me a lot..

@Akira

bah, even I have played Mayhem in Monsterland, and everybody knows I think the C64 sucks and the MSX rulez, so you really deserver a whoop in the ass..

(BTW, I am just kidding about the C64 stuff, I do love the machine, just not as much as the msx )

[RetroMan]

Since I own a MSX I must admit, it´s equal to the C64, even it doesn´t have so much games, but it has GREAT ones But speaking of MAYHEM, does it exist on MSX as well ???

But speaking of MAYHEM, does it exist on MSX as well ???

Hell NO! C64 only baby!

[RetroMan]

BAH

[7-Zark-7]

Shatterhand-Yes, you're right, there are several C64 titles that use that technique-another term I use to read in C64 gaming mags called it a hi-res sprite overlay.
Off the tope of my head I can think of Target Renegade which uses it constantly-the main sprite in Batman the Movie also used it as well.

Amigaboy-maybe one exception-if Apex software had ever written it the Amiga version of "Mayhem" themselves!

Amigaboy-maybe one exception-if Apex software had ever written it the Amiga version of "Mayhem" themselves!

Possibly, but the thing that made Mayhem stand out was how it pushed the C64 hardware to it's limits (tapping into the SID chip for more memory is an example)

On the Amiga, there's more than enough, so it wouldn't be a technical feat.

[Shatterhand]

No, we don't have mayhem, but as far as platformers go, we got Treasure of Usas, Pyscho World, Thexder 2... bah, this won't lead anywhere

I think technically speaking, the MSX is capable of doing much better gfx than the C64. The C64, in the other side, can do proper scroll with easiness, while only the MSX2+ can do it (and there's just 1 or 2 MSX2+ games). The sound is more a personal thing, I believe the MSX has better sound, but the musician in the C64 are better (as I prefer European musicians to Japanese ones)

With exception of Konami, of coruse, as all their music is top-notch

But nothing of this is important, both system has great games, so that's what makes them great...


All games I played from Apex to the C64 are great stuff, what happened to them ?

[andreas]

Possibly, but the thing that made Mayhem stand out was how it pushed the C64 hardware to it's limits

Yes! And that's why playing this game on VICE is utterly a waste of time! This MUST be played with CCS64, otherwise you won't see the game perform in full glory just like on the real C64.
That's one of the "test cases" Håkan Sundell likes to show to demonstrate the vast abilities of CCS64!

[7-Zark-7]

Originally posted by Shatterhand

All games I played from Apex to the C64 are great stuff, what happened to them ?

That's the biggest mystery is the universe...
I think Amigboy posted a link to site once with some old info about Apex, but it dates back to when they were still on the C64 scene. Apparently they got dudded on the majority of royalties owed by the publisher for Creatures..

If anyone out there knows them tell them to come to this site they're true heroes of the C64!!