Need help fixing external floppy drives.

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 11:45

Hi. I recently picked up an A500 with 3 external floppy drives. The first one, even though dented at the back, is working fine. It’s an Alfa Data.
The other two are the same make, Cumana. These drives are giving me problems. One of them can read disks, just about. It's noisy and when it does read it fails half the time. For example, in Xcopy I check a disk for bad sectors and the same disk used in a working drive comes back with multiple errors? I know the disk is fine so something must be going on with how the drive reads it.
The other Cumana is hardly working at all. It occasionally sees the disk but I don't think it can run it. On workbench its icon always reads DF0:BAD and the drive has a red light always showing on the front?

I've tried a floppy cleaning kit but this didn't work either.
Does anyone recommend taking them apart, blasting with compressed air and cleaning them with an alcohol solution?
Does the A500 have any power issues when connecting this many drives?
One more thing. When these drives we're plugged in (and not even in use) they interfered with the communication between my PC to the Amiga over the Serial cable? Don't know why this is? After unplugging the drives it worked normally.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice into this.
Cheers
Tony

s2325 · 26 February 2013, 11:56

I think someone opened second Cumana drive and mixed some wires as constant light on PC drive is sign of connecting with wrong side of plug.

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 12:05

i'm just daisy chaining them. Can't see how else to do it? The back of the drives do have different colour connectors though. One is white... the others black.

demolition · 26 February 2013, 12:31

Open them up and see if it looks like it has been modified inside. Maybe someone replaced the floppy drive at some point and had to make some modifications to make them work (and couldn't get it to work properly?).

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 13:24

Heres some close up pics...
http://www.trydowave.com/amiga500floppy.web.htm

P.s. You will have to scroll to the right as their huge.

demolition · 26 February 2013, 14:14

Doesn't look modified on those pics. Could also just be broken drives (head stuck/dirty sensor/etc).

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 14:20

would the alcohol solution and a general dusting do an any harm?

demolition · 26 February 2013, 14:58

Not unless you blow it apart with compressed air.

Give the heads a little push to loosen them if they have become stuck.

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 15:07

Just cleaned them and there is some improvment. Both drives appear to working now and when checking a disk in xcopy all drives give the same report.
The drive giving me the most trouble still seems to come up with DF2:BAD but then dissapears when a floppy is inserted. What does this mean? I've swapped the drives around, it used to be DF3 so its the same drive with the same icon.
Does bad mean bad connection? Bad disk?

Is it worth messing with or will they damage my floppies?

Cheers
Tony

demolition · 26 February 2013, 16:12

Maybe there's a DD/HD sensor stuck? Try them all out to make sure they move freely. I think those Cumana drives use PC drives so they should have that switch. They are all at the entrance of the drive.

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 17:00

the only switches on these drives are the eject button and the on off button at the back. How do I unstick the sensor?

Cheers
Tony

demolition · 26 February 2013, 17:12

There is always a write protect sensor. It senses the hole in the floppy, so you can find it where it lines up with the write protect hole in the disk when it is inserted. It's a small plastic pin sticking up.

But thinking about it, it's probably not the DD/HD sensor because if it was stuck, it would only mean that you could not use HD disks in the drive, and I guess you are using proper DD disks?

trydowave · 26 February 2013, 23:04

Yes im using DD disks. I have the drives plugged in at the mo, but when i go into workbench i disable them and only have the one external. Their too much of a pain in the arse and not that necessary. I turn them back on for gaming but even then lots of games don't seem to be programmed to use the extra drives!
Super Street Fighter 2 has 5 disks but only uses two drives??! Shadow fighter, 4 disks, only uses 2 (i'm pretty sure that the AGA version uses all four externals)...
for now the only games i've got that seem to use all are Money Island and Dark seed.

Some games or demos ive seen actually suggest turning extra drives off.

s2325 · 26 February 2013, 23:12

Yes, external drive need some memory so few games may be not playable. Also I remember that it's not possible to load Turrican 3 beta with second disk in external drive because of some loader bug.

demolition · 27 February 2013, 00:33

Having so many drives is mainly useful for mass-copying disks, which nobody does anymore, or installing stuff like WB to a HDD. If there's no HDD, two drives is generally useful when working on the Amiga as you can keep the WB disk in one drive to avoid switching around all the time.

26 February 2013, 11:45	#1
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Need help fixing external floppy drives. Hi. I recently picked up an A500 with 3 external floppy drives. The first one, even though dented at the back, is working fine. It’s an Alfa Data. The other two are the same make, Cumana. These drives are giving me problems. One of them can read disks, just about. It's noisy and when it does read it fails half the time. For example, in Xcopy I check a disk for bad sectors and the same disk used in a working drive comes back with multiple errors? I know the disk is fine so something must be going on with how the drive reads it. The other Cumana is hardly working at all. It occasionally sees the disk but I don't think it can run it. On workbench its icon always reads DF0:BAD and the drive has a red light always showing on the front? I've tried a floppy cleaning kit but this didn't work either. Does anyone recommend taking them apart, blasting with compressed air and cleaning them with an alcohol solution? Does the A500 have any power issues when connecting this many drives? One more thing. When these drives we're plugged in (and not even in use) they interfered with the communication between my PC to the Amiga over the Serial cable? Don't know why this is? After unplugging the drives it worked normally. I'd greatly appreciate any advice into this. Cheers Tony

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26 February 2013, 11:56	#2
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	I think someone opened second Cumana drive and mixed some wires as constant light on PC drive is sign of connecting with wrong side of plug.

26 February 2013, 12:05	#3
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	i'm just daisy chaining them. Can't see how else to do it? The back of the drives do have different colour connectors though. One is white... the others black.

26 February 2013, 12:31	#4
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Open them up and see if it looks like it has been modified inside. Maybe someone replaced the floppy drive at some point and had to make some modifications to make them work (and couldn't get it to work properly?).

26 February 2013, 13:24	#5
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Heres some close up pics... http://www.trydowave.com/amiga500floppy.web.htm P.s. You will have to scroll to the right as their huge.

26 February 2013, 14:14	#6
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Doesn't look modified on those pics. Could also just be broken drives (head stuck/dirty sensor/etc).

26 February 2013, 14:20	#7
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	would the alcohol solution and a general dusting do an any harm?

26 February 2013, 14:58	#8
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Not unless you blow it apart with compressed air. Give the heads a little push to loosen them if they have become stuck.

26 February 2013, 15:07	#9
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Just cleaned them and there is some improvment. Both drives appear to working now and when checking a disk in xcopy all drives give the same report. The drive giving me the most trouble still seems to come up with DF2:BAD but then dissapears when a floppy is inserted. What does this mean? I've swapped the drives around, it used to be DF3 so its the same drive with the same icon. Does bad mean bad connection? Bad disk? Is it worth messing with or will they damage my floppies? Cheers Tony

26 February 2013, 16:12	#10
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Maybe there's a DD/HD sensor stuck? Try them all out to make sure they move freely. I think those Cumana drives use PC drives so they should have that switch. They are all at the entrance of the drive.

26 February 2013, 17:00	#11
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	the only switches on these drives are the eject button and the on off button at the back. How do I unstick the sensor? Cheers Tony

26 February 2013, 17:12	#12
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	There is always a write protect sensor. It senses the hole in the floppy, so you can find it where it lines up with the write protect hole in the disk when it is inserted. It's a small plastic pin sticking up. But thinking about it, it's probably not the DD/HD sensor because if it was stuck, it would only mean that you could not use HD disks in the drive, and I guess you are using proper DD disks?

26 February 2013, 23:04	#13
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Yes im using DD disks. I have the drives plugged in at the mo, but when i go into workbench i disable them and only have the one external. Their too much of a pain in the arse and not that necessary. I turn them back on for gaming but even then lots of games don't seem to be programmed to use the extra drives! Super Street Fighter 2 has 5 disks but only uses two drives??! Shadow fighter, 4 disks, only uses 2 (i'm pretty sure that the AGA version uses all four externals)... for now the only games i've got that seem to use all are Money Island and Dark seed. Some games or demos ive seen actually suggest turning extra drives off.

26 February 2013, 23:12	#14
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	Yes, external drive need some memory so few games may be not playable. Also I remember that it's not possible to load Turrican 3 beta with second disk in external drive because of some loader bug.

27 February 2013, 00:33	#15
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Having so many drives is mainly useful for mass-copying disks, which nobody does anymore, or installing stuff like WB to a HDD. If there's no HDD, two drives is generally useful when working on the Amiga as you can keep the WB disk in one drive to avoid switching around all the time.

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