Blizzard 1260 and OS 3.2.1

[xavlahaye]

Hey guys,

I've been trying for a couple of weeks now to get my OS 3.2.1 install to run stable with a Blizzard 1260 card without success.
Startup-sequence fails at the first assign with cache enabled.
When cache is disabled, it boots and everything is quite stable, but items in the wbstartup had to be removed otherwise the startup process would crash at that point.
If I turn on the cache for a specific game or demo it then performs as it should, no problem.
I've tried with both phase5 lib and MMUlib, and they both exhibit the same behavior, only the crashes are in different places.

For the moment, I'd say phase5's 68060.library is the most stable for now. But I would really like to have to opposite behavior: a stable system with caches enabled and disabling them sometimes when necessary...

Any advice? Could it be OS 3.2 causing issues?
I've read this a couple of times around but not in very developed threads, might be vapour...

Also, I get 2.25 chipspeed vs A600 and I was under the impression that the 1260 would perform better. Slowdowns occur in some games (like Uridium2 and Rainbow Islands for instance), even if they are bearable. Is that normal?

Config:
Amiga 1200 rev 1.D4
Blizzard 1260(rev1)@50 Mhz, 96 megs of RAM
SCSI-kit with ROM 8.5
ZuluSCSI with 32 gigs SD card PFS3 formatted
Kickstart rom 3.2.1
Patches: Fblit, BlazeWCP, CopyMemQuick

[DanyPPC]

Blizzard 1260 slow memory chip access is well known. This makes slowdown in some games, like Turrican 2 and others.

I don't know if OS 3.2.2 has problems with Blizzard 1260, but try to disable all the patches you have in Startup-Sequence and WBStartup.

Verify to have the latest mmu libraries, and check the SetPatch line in s-s.

[xavlahaye]

Setpatch NOCACHE >NIL: has to be used otherwise the startup-sequence doesn't make to the WB

With cache it seems to crash randomly on an assign, a mount, or with binddrinvers, etc...

I've read the MMUlib's manual, re-installed it and disabled all patches (replacing most by MMUTools equivalents)
The system is snappier and more stable as a result, thanks!

But still no salute with DATA CACHE ON...

I even pushed it to downgrade to 3.1.4 but nope, it's the same

So is it normal to have the CACHE OFF all the time and to just turn it on when about to use CPU hungry tasks?

What else could it be?

[xavlahaye]

Board was recapped 4 years ago
No timing fixes on that one sadly (for now). I was thinking that this could be the problem I bought another 1d1 motherboard especially to test, same thing on that one I'm afraid... this motherboard is now served by a TF1260, and it also doesn't like the data cache

A-Power 55W is the power supply I use with this setup.
Just prior to last week the board was in a checkmate case with a much higher power rating and it was still the same... a 5v rail regulated 500W all within specs (including min load and all the things I could find about PSUs for 1200s...)

I installed Thors MMU in intermediate mode. Then I executed the script to create the MMU-table, and added everything in the s-s and user-s for good use for the MMUTools.

I read the manual pretty well but I will give it another go as it's a bit complex at first!

To be clear: the computer is stable, it just doesn't like the data cache, without it, it just works well. The random crashes only occur with the cache on. I swap it on and off with the CPU command. Now, I start to get when to turn them on or not, according to what I do...

I did upgrade to 3.2.2.1 but the rom I've got from amigastore.eu just doesn't work, I have to send it back. Nothing happens, just black screen So I went back to 3.2.1, because I have a functioning physical rom of it, and that saves me a reboot during startup, which is always nice. The SCSI-Kit adds some seconds before booting by the way, maybe 3-4 secs...

I will upgrade again if nothing else!
latest MMULib says it requires m68k-amigaos >= 2.0.4 to function...

[itsmedoofer]

Hi,

My only contribution here is that I have a Blizzard 1260 with SCSI running the latest 3.2 and its running beautifully.

I have it in a 2B board, Rev 1 060, 70ns EDO and use the Phase 5 libraries.. I boot off of IDE and only use SCSI occasionally for CD and a tape drive....

One thing I have found is it's picky on the memory it likes, I have a known good 128Mb EDO simm that was taken from a machine and put on the scsi module and from that moment, nothing but crashes. I could trigger them simply by filling the ram drive and then deleting the content, guru... I put the original 64Mb back in and the gurus went away....

[Photon]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

Also, I get 2.25 chipspeed vs A600 and I was under the impression that the 1260 would perform better. Slowdowns occur in some games (like Uridium2 and Rainbow Islands for instance), even if they are bearable. Is that normal?

I'm guessing WHDLoad, which adds very little in the way of sandbox environment and this certainly shouldn't slow down any game.

Banging-the-Blitter, tight timing, chipmem-only games can cause stutter from the accelerator accessing chipmem over the expansion bus constantly. But Graftgold games are not in this performance category.

Either way, stutters are not instability. Instability is crashes (on Amiga, Guru Meditations).

I run 3.1 because higher versions have moved libraries out of ROM to fit other stuff, but B1260 is common enough that you should get a yea from higher KS version users.

You should definitely expect a stable Workbench with caches on for your accelerator, whichever Kickstart/WB you use. (The only exception is 68040, where you should turn off Copyback Cache.)

So I can only say what it isn't, not what it is.

I think I also know that the #1 culprit in instability is the startup-sequence. If you do a clean install, and WB is stable, you're done. Your accelerator is good.

If it later becomes unstable, it's because you installed something that expected something and got something unexpected. Not very helpful maybe, but there it is.

[xavlahaye]

Originally Posted by Boing-Ball

And this is a long shot. Do you still have the jumper off for the MapROM function? Or is it on for No MapROM function?

I've tried that, no change. but I left it on since MuTools just does it very well.

What type of SIMMS are you using in the 1260? 80ns, 70ns, 60NS or 50ns? EDO or FastPage? RAM checks out okay on DiagROM and/or AmigaTestKit?

The RAM is being tested as I write with AmigaTestKit. I've tried a couple of times already but it's just so long, maybe it will be over when I leave in 40 mins!

the ram is this one:
so it's an EDO 72pin, the speed is unclear. They say 50/60ns

https://www.ebay.de/itm/150967645418

68060 CPU. Is this a XC or MC Chip? Rev 1 RC, EC or LC? WhichAmiga should tell you this or sysconfig on 3.2x

MC68060RC rev.1. On thursday I had to stop the testing as it was becoming unstable after 8 hours of use in a closed case: too warm!

The 3-4 second delay for the SCSI is normal, unfortunately the SCSI MKIV board doesn’t have any configuration menu like the BPPC boards for switching off any SCSI IDs. Therefore the SCSI is scanning ID 0-6 for any SCSI devices.

Maybe somebody came up with a SCSI ROM that only waits for first unit?

Originally Posted by itsmedoofer

Hi,

My only contribution here is that I have a Blizzard 1260 with SCSI running the latest 3.2 and its running beautifully

That's actually very helpful to know!

Originally Posted by Photon

I'm guessing WHDLoad, which adds very little in the way of sandbox environment and this certainly shouldn't slow down any game.

Either way, stutters are not instability. Instability is crashes (on Amiga, Guru Meditations).

Yes, of course, it's ok. I've just got hold of a Sakura SRAM PCMCIA card, I hope that will solve that problem by booting on CF with the 1260 disabled

but within the games that I like, weirdly enough it seems to be the Graftgold games that slow down more than others. I can run other seemingly more demanding games without problems, so what do I know . Also 060 demos run very well apart from Neonsky which has all the most beautiful effects corrupted sadly...

I think I also know that the #1 culprit in instability is the startup-sequence. If you do a clean install, and WB is stable, you're done. Your accelerator is good.

After the memory test, I'll do a clean install if the problems persist!

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

Config:
Amiga 1200 rev 1.D4
Blizzard 1260(rev1)@50 Mhz, 96 megs of RAM
SCSI-kit with ROM 8.5
ZuluSCSI with 32 gigs SD card PFS3 formatted
Kickstart rom 3.2.1
Patches: Fblit, BlazeWCP, CopyMemQuick

While I do not have a 1260 here, I do have a B2060 which is the "big box" equivalent of the 1260, also year-long with a rev.1 68060. There are no such problems.


As a matter of advice, I would first remove the patches, and if that still fails, run a memory test. Also, in which shape is the power supply?

[xavlahaye]

I'm happy to report that the system is now WAY MORE stable!
Like 98% stable
The clean install made it happen.

I literally re-installed everything I needed from scratch, not only the OS. What I was doing before was to backup my stuff one by one using Dopus and copy it back over the OS after a fresh install which was fast but bad, I know it now

I do have occasional crashes mostly with error #8000000B which seems to be FPU-related...
When using the CPU command I get this msg: false data prefetch of FPU instructions

Maybe the system is not configured right for FPU operations???

I also crash the amiga when I copy text to the clipboard from TextEdit which is really strange
Other than that everything works now!

Regarding the heat problem, I don't have a heatsink installed on the CPU (yet). I moved the memory on the SCSI-kit and I'm in the process of getting another trapdoor with space for the 68060 & heatsink to stick out. I will also find higher feet for the 1200.

Regarding the PSU, I will upgrade as soon as new CA-PSUs are available, which should be soon, according to Jens.

Looking good now I really enjoy the 1260! Thanks, everybody for your help

[Thomas Richter]

The 80..0B alert is a "Line-F" exception, and this might mean that you did not install the 68060.library. The system should actually do that for you.

[xavlahaye]

Ok, I see. After installing the OS, I installed MMUlib latest version from Aminet and got my 68060 library from there. I don't have any other CPU library in LIBS:
Should I try again?

[derSammler]

From all you wrote so far, I would consider that the CPU might be just bad. Sadly, nothing lasts forever. Normally, I would say: test with a different CPU - but not too many people have a spare 060 lying around.

On the other hand, a rev.1 CPU runs very hot. Maybe you need to add a heatsink to make it run stable.

[xavlahaye]

I didn't try expert, because I'm not one but I'll try that tomorrow
As for the 060, I actually have a TF1260 too, with a rev.5, I think it comes from my install rather than the CPU since I also got those issues with this card using the same system!
But yes, more testing
But it does run stable now, I can't say that having problems with TextEdit makes the system unusable at all...

[Kin Hell]

MMU Libs from the 3.2.1 Install should be okay.

Phase5 were always good for me on 3.1 ROM running OS3.9

http://phase5.a1k.org/index.html

Have you tried removing the 32Mb SIMM on the SCSI card?
Mixing different brands/speeds is not always a good idea on any computer.
Guessing you have this config stating 96Mb on your OP.

You could switch SIMM locations, though the 64Mb 50ns SIMM should be fine tbh. I have a 128Mb 50ns on a DKB 50Mhz Mongoose card which will overclock to 58Mhz without issue. Mixing SIMMS could be part of your issue but 060 instructions are different to 030.

Rev 1 CPU's are hot Chips, for sure.

Stand the Amiga on Blocks off the table & have a fan blowing cold air between the desk & underside of the Amiga. Is it stable like this with the 32Mb SIMM still in place? - Only to prove the CPU might be overheating....

Heat build up may well be causing FPU fails.

Absolutely nothing to configure for an FPU. The FPU on an Amiga just gets on with it's tasks in the background when FPU instructions are called for.
There are two software packages you can install for enhanced FPU operations/calculations but they were always a moot subject back in the day.
These were Oxyron Patcher & CyberPatcher, the latter being on the Phase5 Installation disk in the CyberTools Directory.

If swapping/changing the SIMM's or jacking up the case for ventilation makes no difference, take 3.2.1 out of the equation all together by flipping your 3.1 ROM's back in if you have them & install Workbench using the Phase5 Libs.

Any different?

I'd say either Heat or an imminent loss of magic smoke within the CPU could be at hand. FPU's can die, especially if the CPU overall has been run too HOT for too long.

Switching out for your Rev 5 CPU might solve everything, but do it on blocks off the desk with the Rev 1 first & the same with your Rev 5.



"Expert" .... No such thing....

An "Ex" is a "Has-Been"....

& a "Spurt" is a "Drip under Pressure".

[xavlahaye]

Yes, I removed the 32mb simm a while ago already, suspecting that this could be part of the problem.
Right now I tend to think that the problem comes from heat. Maybe this particular card is more suitable in a tower or checkmate case.

Is there an easy way to check if the FPU is alive?

I just run 3 060 demos and yep... it started to crash in the middle of whdload games, randomly in wb, etc...

Not sure I want to have the Amiga constantly open with fan noise and on woodblocks... this and the slowdowns in games...
damn, I leave in a few days for a little while and I'm starting to think that I will switch back to the 1230 mk-IV which never gave me any problem

[Kin Hell]

Originally Posted by xavlahaye

Yes, I removed the 32mb simm a while ago already, suspecting that this could be part of the problem.
Right now I tend to think that the problem comes from heat. Maybe this particular card is more suitable in a tower or checkmate case.

Is there an easy way to check if the FPU is alive?

I just run 3 060 demos and yep... it started to crash in the middle of whdload games, randomly in wb, etc...

Not sure I want to have the Amiga constantly open with fan noise and on woodblocks... this and the slowdowns in games...
damn, I leave in a few days for a little while and I'm starting to think that I will switch back to the 1230 mk-IV which never gave me any problem

Re the FPU check... Yes. Try the Beachball Render test in AIBB

Run it at default settings & make a note of the time it takes to render the Beachball.
Then change the 68000 setting to 68020 and note your time render there... It should be massively quicker.

Fully appreciate not wanting your Amiga on Blocks. This is merely to prove the CPU may be overheating. If blocking it up means it doesn't crash, you know it is heat killing it.

[xavlahaye]

Ok so I couldn't go further with testing/troubleshooting as I am travelling now but I'm planning to get back to it on my return.
There are some rev5 CPUS for sale on Amibay with heatsink.
I'm just starting to think about replacing the CPU. Are rev5s better regarding heat?
Say I would like to overclock it, maybe to 64 Mhz (I've got the SCSI-Kit, I read it might not function properly if I go beyond that), would that be ok in the wedge case?
Or is it something for rev6 060s only?

[xavlahaye]

Alright, I just wanted to report that I updated the CPU to a rev6 (thanks Hese!) and that after a clean install, everything works great now with no overheating problems and very stable!
And for the slow chipmem access I've got a Sakura SRAM PCMCIA card and by disabling the blizzard I can play WHDLOAD games that used to have slowdowns!
Thanks everybody for your advice and Merry Christmas!

[Kin Hell]

Good to hear fella & a very Merry Christmas to you too!

[Orionis5]

Great to hear that and is not a problem with OS 3.2.