Access PCMCIA with Viper 1230/28 (A1200)

[Badders]

Hi guys,

I just got and installed the above card with 8MB RAM installed. Now I've lost my PCMCIA slot functionality.

Is there any work around to get this to work without having to reduce the RAM to 4MB?

I previously had a 4MB/FPU card in there and the PCMCIA slot was fine. However, some AGA games using WHDLoad refused to run (Skidmarks AGA, Pinball Fantasies AGA & Pinball Illusions AGA).

The PCMCIA-CF is the only way I have to get stuff on my A1200 but reduce the RAM and some games refuse to run. I don't want to keep messing about swapping jumpers every time I want to copy files over to my A1200.

Is there a memory remap utility or something?

Cheers,

Pete.

[cpiac64]

you need change the set-up on board, change the jumper from m0 to m1

[Badders]

I'm assuming you mean MEM 0 and MEM 1?

I have MEM 0, MEM 1, MEM 2 active giving 8MB. To set it to 4MB I would have to remove the jumper from MEM 2.

This should get the PCMCIA working again, but the games I want to play fail to load with only 4MB fast RAM.

I'll give it a go. I guess there's no way of having 8MB AND PCMCIA with this card?

Thanks,

Pete.

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Badders

Hi guys,

I just got and installed the above card with 8MB RAM installed. Now I've lost my PCMCIA slot functionality.

Is there any work around to get this to work without having to reduce the RAM to 4MB?

I previously had a 4MB/FPU card in there and the PCMCIA slot was fine. However, some AGA games using WHDLoad refused to run (Skidmarks AGA, Pinball Fantasies AGA & Pinball Illusions AGA).

The PCMCIA-CF is the only way I have to get stuff on my A1200 but reduce the RAM and some games refuse to run. I don't want to keep messing about swapping jumpers every time I want to copy files over to my A1200.

Is there a memory remap utility or something?

Cheers,

Pete.

it seems that you have kickstart 3.1 roms on your A1200...that's because pcmcia not works
commodore in 1994 blocked pcmcia on kick 3.1 to avoid conflict with those old pcmcia ram cards...which today is not applicable to modems or lans, cf flash adapters or any new pcmcia card
install kickstart 3.0 roms and pcmcia will works fine with your turboboard + 8mb

[Retro1234]

I don't think thats correct as lots of people use 3.1 with PCMCIA can you give an example?

I don't know the solution but some cards aren't compatible with over 4mb and PCMCIA.

On The Big Book of Amiga Hardware is states the Viper 1230 is compatible but the Viper 1230/28 RTC is not PCMCIA compatible if more than 4MB is installed on the card.

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...cgi?HARDID=119
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...cgi?HARDID=120
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I don't think thats correct as lots of people use 3.1 with PCMCIA can you give an example?

I don't know the solution but some cards aren't compatible with over 4mb and PCMCIA.

On The Big Book of Amiga Hardware is states the Viper 1230 is compatible but the Viper 1230/28 RTC is not PCMCIA compatible if more than 4MB is installed on the card.

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...cgi?HARDID=119
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...cgi?HARDID=120
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/

it seems you are confused...also the info on amiga hardware is old and outdated
the kickstart 3.1 pcmcia bug applies to all A1200 ram cards,all 020 turboboards like the blizzard 1220 turbo,tra1200 ,apollo 1220
also applies to certain 030 boards like the the viper 1230-28

all of them uses zorro 2 memory and pcmcia not works with kickstart 3.1 when more of 4mb is used
if you use kickstart 3.0 there is not problems at all...pcmcia will work fine with 8mb

more info here:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58624

[Retro1234]

There does seem to be a difference with some cards but saying all turboboards and affected cards will work under 3.0 I think proof would be needed.

P.s I think all the games you mentioned have there own HD install so could be run from HD with 4mb that way.

[Calgor]

It probably affects those accelerators that allocate memory at the below address (quote taken from kickstart 3.1 changes):

cardres 40.3

- Now leaves PCMCIA slot disabled if any RAM is configured at $600000;
this allows use of >4Megs of 24bit RAM on the A1200 at the expense of
being unable to use the PCMCIA slot. (39.1)

Now if you were to say that it works in Kickstart 3.0 when it fails in Kickstart 3.1, I would guess it would only work properly if the PCMCIA card does not use the same memory address(es) as the accelerator, otherwise welcome to crash hell.

You should be able to see what memory addresses the accelerator is using by looking at the output of the showconfig command.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Calgor

Now if you were to say that it works in Kickstart 3.0 when it fails in Kickstart 3.1, I would guess it would only work properly if the PCMCIA card does not use the same memory address(es) as the accelerator, otherwise welcome to crash hell.

What I think he's saying is that it wouldn't crash, as long as the card in the PCMCIA slot isn't an sRAM card and the ROMS are 3.0.

It would be interesting to test..
If someone has a RAM card that is "not PCMCIA friendly" with more than 4M, could they try that card with a 3.0 ROM Amiga and some CF or ethernet PCMCIA cards and see what happens?????

Ideally, if they could test again with 3.1 ROMs.. But that involves having a variety of hardware...
(Scratch that part. You said cardres disables PCMCIA on 3.1.. duh.. ;-)

I just sold my 8M card (got a 1230 a bit ago), so I can't test it..

desiv

[Retro1234]

If anyones got a card that is not PCMCIA friendly they can try software SKICK down to 3.0 and see if it works or Skick up to 3.1 and see if problems occur
Might be worth a new thread - seems quite a common reoccurring problem might be good to get some conclusive info for future help.

If you have the Kickstarts set up for WHDload should be easy to Skick down or up.


:Could maybe build a 3.1+ rom with the old version of cardres

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

If anyones got a card that is not PCMCIA friendly they can try software SKICK down to 3.0 and see if it works or Skick up to 3.1 and see if problems occur
Might be worth a new thread - seems quite a common reoccurring problem might be good to get some conclusive info for future help.

If you have the Kickstarts set up for WHDload should be easy to Skick down or up.

if you have kick3.1 on hardware and you use skick to down to kick 3.0 PCMCIA will start to work after 1st reboot (I tested that)
as I stated is a problem of kick 3.1
anyways it is a partial solution cause you lost 512kb of memory and you can't use OS3.9

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

:Could maybe build a 3.1+ rom with the old version of cardres

I'm sure it is possible
there are 2 files to change in kickstart:
carddisk.device
card.resource
I builded a kickstart 3.1 with those older files of kick 3.0 using remus
The kickstart I builded worked fine on winuae,but who know what will happen on real hardware cause skick don't works with modified kickstarts ( only accepts originals kickstarts)

btw, do you know a way to make skick works with modified kickstarts romfiles?

[Retro1234]

Its no solution but a quick way to test different cards without having to physically switch ROMs.

You would probably need the relevant .PAT & .RTB file for Skick shame because I would like to Kick custom roms - but could still use the older device if you wanted to burn kickstart eprom.

[Mequa]

I also have this problem on my A1200 with Kickstart 3.1, 8MB Fast RAM and a PCMCIA CF adapter. Since upgrading the ROM chips to 3.1 I am unable to use PCMCIA.

I also have an internal CF card so don't need PCMCIA at boot time, I could try softkicking 3.0 to use the PCMCIA CF card (at the expense of 512KB RAM).

I wonder if there is a patch available, perhaps runnable from startup-sequence, to use PCMCIA with 3.1 + 8MB Fast RAM to override the cardres "update" (if PCMCIA is not needed at boot time), or is this not possible for technical reasons?

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Mequa

I also have this problem on my A1200 with Kickstart 3.1, 8MB Fast RAM and a PCMCIA CF adapter. Since upgrading the ROM chips to 3.1 I am unable to use PCMCIA.

I also have an internal CF card so don't need PCMCIA at boot time, I could try softkicking 3.0 to use the PCMCIA CF card (at the expense of 512KB RAM).

I wonder if there is a patch available, perhaps runnable from startup-sequence, to use PCMCIA with 3.1 + 8MB Fast RAM to override the cardres "update" (if PCMCIA is not needed at boot time), or is this not possible for technical reasons?

There is no patch available sorry...the amiga community just realized in 2011 that the pcmcia problem is a bug in kickstart 3.1
I'm sure a patch it is possible but I think will requires a reboot
anyways
if you still have the old roms 3.0 chips I recommend to use them since there is not advantage at all of using roms 3.1 ...there is no new features on Kick 3.1 supposedly bug fixes but I think commodore only added bugs

if you want to run OS3.9 on kick 3.0 also there is a simple patch in the startup-sequence to make OS3.9 work at full
PM if u are interested

[Mequa]

Originally Posted by clauddio

if you still have the old roms 3.0 chips I recommend to use them since there is not advantage at all of using roms 3.1 ...there is no new features on Kick 3.1 supposedly bug fixes but I think commodore only added bugs

I just replaced the Kick 3.0 rom chips. Yay, CC0 is recognised again in early startup! And I can mount CF0!
Kind of a waste of £20 to obtain the 3.1 ROM though, but at least I can add it to my classic Amiga collection.

BTW, the instructions specify using a flathead screwdriver to remove the ROMs, but the only ones I have are magnetic, which seems a BAD idea to use . I found a blunt kitchen knife which did the job just fine (touching a radiator for anti-static). And my 3.1 chips are safely packed away again.

Originally Posted by clauddio

if you want to run OS3.9 on kick 3.0 also there is a simple patch in the startup-sequence to make OS3.9 work at full
PM if u are interested

That might be worth posting on its own thread, given the problems with 3.1 ROM. I don't have an accelerator though (just 8MB Fast RAM) so 3.9 would be more of a novelty than anything else.
(On the topic of ROMs I got latest AROS ROM nightly build to softkick. Alas, no PCMCIA there either. )

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Mequa

BTW, the instructions specify using a flathead screwdriver to remove the ROMs, but the only ones I have are magnetic, which seems a BAD idea to use .

There's nothing in the chips that the magnet could alter.

The only parts inside your computer you should keep away from magnets are floppy disks, hard disks and perhaps floppy disk drives.

[fgh]

So, to summarize:

• The PCMCIA memory area is the upper 4MB of Z2 address space: $600000 to $9FFFFF
• Cardres 40.3 from KS3.1 (40.63 for a600, 40.68 for a1200) disables PCMCIA if any RAM is configured at $600000 (Caused by KS3.1, not WB3.1)
• It's clear that PCMCIA SRAM must use this address space
• It's unclear which other PCMCIA equipment use this address space

From the A1200 System Specification:
000000 to 1FFFFF 2 MB Chip RAM(or system ROM overlay)
200000 to 5FFFFF 4 MB Zorro II expansion space
600000 to 9FFFFF 4 MB Credit Card memory if CC present
AOOOOO to A1FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Attributes
A20000 to A3FFFF 128 KB Credit Card I/O
A40000 to A5FFFF 128 KB Credit Card Bits (similar to CDTV)
A60000 to A7FFFF 128 KB PC I/O

The mentioned amiga.org thread include reports that a modem and a CF card 'worked fine' with a TRA1200 board (24bit 68EC020) with KS3.0 and 8MB...
If all PCMCIA cards other than SRAM cards work perfectly fine on 3.0, this is indeed a bit of a fuckup from commodore.
However if many PCMCIA I/O cards also use the same address space, it makes some more sense to disable it, to avoid random hangs.

1. Can PCMCIA I/O devices (CF, SD, modems, ethernet, wifi, SCSI, etc) technically access the same memory area (600000 to 9FFFFF)?
   
   
2. Is it likely that I/O cards require more than the four reserved 128kb areas?
   
   
3. What would be an intelligent way to find out which address space is used by PCMCIA I/O cards?

[Mequa]

Originally Posted by fgh

The mentioned amiga.org thread include reports that a modem and a CF card 'worked fine' with a TRA1200 board (24bit 68EC020) with KS3.0 and 8MB...

Yes, my PCMCIA 4GB CF card (formatted as FAT32) works fine with KS3.0 and 8MB Fast RAM and even plays well with an internal IDE 4GB CF (formatted as SFS I believe).

Slot in a KS3.1 and no PCMCIA, not even in the early startup menu. No CC0 and no mountable CF0. I've had no issues whatsoever using this PCMCIA CF adapter with KS3.0 and 8MB Fast RAM. Replacing the KS3.0 chips restored it.

I don't know what Commodore's engineers were smoking to make this KS3.1 "feature" compulsory.

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Mequa

I don't know what Commodore's engineers were smoking to make this KS3.1 "feature" compulsory.

were smoking weed 24hs/day that's because commodore went bankrupt

[Mequa]

Originally Posted by clauddio

were smoking weed 24hs/day that's because commodore went bankrupt

I was thinking more like crack. Way to cripple an Amiga setup. PCMCIA OR 8MB Fastram, when many devices work perfectly with both without the ROM update? Makes perfect sense.

I noticed some 3.0 ROMs on eBay, in case anyone with a newer A1200 with 3.1 wishes to "downgrade" and get PCMCIA CF or Ethernet working with 8MB Fast RAM.