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Old 24 June 2013, 14:37   #26
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Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
...from start I am talking about A1200 with Fast RAM.

"are best Amiga 1200 demos with most complex 3D scenes BUT for STOCK A1200 (14MHz - with FastRAM)." link
but STOCK A1200 is without Fast RAM - thus requirement is contradictory.

Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
this is exactly why I ask what are best 3D demos on A1200 with FastRAM: I wan to see what coders manage to pull from both machines!
Once again - unless Falcon not use DSP as GPU that's fine but without source we can't verify if DSP is used or not. Pears to peaches (as apple is tm)...

Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
hm... why you are talking about "How many thing you need to emulate from Amiga on ST" when your original replay was about 3D:
But A1200 is plain 2D machine where Falcon can be seen as 2D + 3D (hardware multiply + other features in DSP really can gain nice offload from main CPU) - emulation as most of efforts form ST is related how to beat Amiga (i mean how emulate non existing HW on MC68K).

Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
I replay to this: "we can open new topic but I think that ST is faster with 10% faster CPU and interleave video memory (and movem.l)..." and I was talking about 3D speed!

so I do not understand why did you post bunch of pictures... ?!?
This one is quite clear - as you stated no flame wars but then starting new one then you have result - once again - ST need to emulate basic things that are available on Amiga as HW implementation - i see no point to start after 25 years discussion is 10% higher CPU clocking will give (or not) any gain over Amiga.
Not sure but can you provide similar topic on dedicated ST forum where some Amiga guy starting similar topic.

We can only compare something that is comparable - ST and A500 can't be compared as they are not comparable.

btw - once again - 3D even in software must be rendered at final buffer - this is my point with pictures - video buffers and video output capabilities are so different that it is really hard even to think about honest ST comparison with A500.

For example i can set 640x400 on Amiga - i can even force this resolution to be less flicker (by shortening video frame on OCS or explicitly by reducing number of lines to be displayed on ECS) - or i can be nasty and use LCD as display thus no flicker at all, then i can draw 3D on such screen but still i can introduce color and this is out of ST capabilities - how we can compare this? Gain from memory organization on ST is mostly where chunky translation is used - then yes, ST will be slightly faster but do really that speed will translate to final effect? when you need push PSG vol register to emulate PCM channel for example?

Let me show this in that way - nice example [ Show youtube player ] vs very good [ Show youtube player ] or [ Show youtube player ] i like those ST demos, no doubt but i think that difference (some imperfections on ST) are obvious - and how to compare various taste? pears to peaches...

So sorry, no offense but we can't compare ST with A500 and we can't compare Falcon with A1200 - both comparisons will be simply unfair.
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