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Old 23 June 2012, 19:30   #38
Alien Breeder
XDelusion's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 276
Before I begin, I think that what I'm requesting here may take years to accomplish, and a while team at that. so with this in mind, I don't seriously expect you to produce a Dream Engine Nova, but here are some of my thoughts anyhow...

Last night I was talking on the ZDOOM forums and running a few experiments with home with DosBOX.

The discussion in the ZDOOM forums was which ports featured true 3D floors and which ones had the least bugs and were the most resource friendly.

Well needless to say, not many people knew how many resources the various approaches to 3D floors used, but they did know which ones pulled it off the best and what have you.

The tops suggestion was to attempt to pull the 3D floors from GzDOOM and go with them. Vavoom was also mentioned, and I "think" that that is where GzDOOM got it's floors.

Though GzDOOM also has an alternate system based upon what DOOM Legacy used which brings me to my experiences with DosBOX.

I fired up DosBOX in 386 mode and launched DOOM Legacy with a map I threw together using lots of 3D floors, both solid and translucent as well as a large pool of swimmable 3D Water.

To my utter surprise, DOOM Legacy handled perfectly fine without any slow down. That is if you keep it in a low resolution I.E. 320x200.

Having discovered this, I am wondering a few things that would benefit the AB3D project a lot more than standard BOOM.

First off, I have never really edited for standard BOOM before. The least I had ever messed with was PrBOOM, so I always assumed that MBF and BOOM had always been together, but I did not realize that the MBF features were missing until last night when I tried to create a bouncing grenade for BOOM.

I then thought,"well hey, if Legacy/ReBOOM can run on a low spec system, then why not see if I can talk someone into porting that?"

Sadly, I soon came to discover that Legacy does not have MBF features in it either, so while it would cover all the other bases to make the AB3D TC as true to form as possible, it still would not be possible to have bouncing grenades.

Then I got to thinking, why would it not be possible to port over PrBOOM entirely? Then when that was done, somehow, maybe with the use of dark magic or something, incorporate the 3D floors and 3D water from GzDOOM, Vavoom, or last case scenario, DOOM Legacy. After all it would then provide the DOOM community in general a new enhanced BOOM with new features, plus we'd eat it up here in the Amiga scene as well!!

The reason why I suggest Legacy last is because it's 3D floors have one little bug...

Once in a blue moon, if you have a sprite in a 3D room, you will be able to see it through the 3D walls that enclose it. It does not take away from the game play entirely, but it is a bug none the less which is why I suggest having a look at Vavoom or GzDOOM's methods which don't appear to have this bug.

Either way, even without the true 3D floors, like I said before, I would be able to come up with work arounds to duplicate all the AB3D maps as good as possible, but honestly, it would be so much cooler just to have those 3D floors!


In closing I will list in order of importance, a few things that AB3D has and what DOOM source ports have the features need to pull them off.

3d Floors & 3D Transparent Water = DOOM Legacy, Vavoom, GzDOOM

Bouncing Grenades and Land mines. = MBF - PrBOOM

Ducking = GzDOOM

Drone (If memory serves correctly, these are in the 3D games or at least the old top down games right?) = MBF

Water Splash effect = Early DOOM Legacy

Walking Sound - ? Scripting

Pushers and Pullers screwed up in BOOM only work with MBF, not sure if they are totally needed though, unless we can't have 3D water, then
as you can see int he example in my demo, friction does not work quite right...

...unless I'm doing something wrong.


Some elaboration:

Some MBF Support. This was merged into BOOM with the advent of PrBOOM. I was not aware of this until now.

Specific features this would allow:


This allows for bounching grenades and land mines to be configured in Dehacked or BEX. Without this we would be without a grenade launcher.



OK, I admit, I don't NEED it, but with it the mapper could create friendlies out of enemies. The given exmaple with MBF is a German Shepherd, but it can be made to
look like what ever you want it to, I.E. the drones you collect in the original Alien Breed games, or comerade soldiers.

These of course would be features I would only introduce in the new difficulty setting, and in post level 16 levels so as to preserve the flow of the original game.


Things 140

This is the additional German Shepherd character. By default he is a friendly, but he can also be converted into an enemy which would then by default provide DOOM
with an additional enemy, or in other cases, allow for the game designer to create a friendly without sparing a DOOM enemy, or even allow for additional resources
editing the sprite frames in DEH or BEX.

Again the AB3D project is not dependant upon this feature, but it would be nice!!!


Actually, all of MBF would be nice, or a port of PrBOOM for that matter.


DOOM Legacy Features: I was not aware that Legacy introduced 3D Floors into it's early DOS incarnations. So I set DOSBox to slow 486 speeds, and created a map with a 3D floor,
then fired up legacy. To my surprise it ran well with no slow down! On top of that the enemies had no problem walking out onto the floor, plus you could not see them through
the floor as you can in cDOOM. PERFECT!!! I do not believe that this would hinder system resources at all!!!

Water Splash effect:

This a feature in early versions of Legacy, but was later removed. What it did was allow for a water splash effect when they player landed in water. This is something
that can be found in the original AB3D.



281 - Creates a solid 3D floor in all tagged sectors.
289 - Creates a solid 3D floor in all tagged sectors, does not cast a shadow.

Need I say more? This will not only allow for TRUE 3D Floors, and TRUE Room above Room, but also multi-tier buildings, stairs, or what ever your heart desires!!!


Additional Linedefs:

300 - Creates a solid translucent 3D floor in all tagged sectors.
301 - Creates translucent 3D water in all tagged sectors.

300: Translucent 3D Floor.

301: Real 3D water that you can see through from above and below, JUST LIKE IN AB3D!!! Also this allows one to create climbable ladders.

NOTE: The only difference between this water and the water method I was using before is of course the fact that you can now see above and below it, but also you
can swim in it, which was not a feature in AB3D.


Of course Legacy does feature a comlpex scripting system called Fraggle script that would be REALLY nice to have, though I can't think of anything AB3D dependant
that would need scripting, also I'm pretty sure that scripting would chew up resources in a heart beat. On the other hand if possible, it would allow one to
carry out some really impressive tricks on so many levels!
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