Thread: Cloanto debate
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Old 11 January 2012, 07:24   #276
Jakub83
 
Posts: n/a
Cloanto bashing on EAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
One has the fair use right to make an archival copy of software.
I do not object to backups. I guess it is good to have a backup of your ROM in case it breaks.

As to "fair use", you may want to better research the words you use, because it has nothing to do with copying entire software programs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
EULAs have no legal weight.
Who says this, are you a lawyer? Ask a lawyer if you can copy a ROM from one computer and use it somewhere else (not for "archival" or "backup") and please share the response here.

To the contrary, I believe that an EULA may allow for a copy, if the owner so chooses. But I don't think the EULA that came with the Amiga computers, if one did at all, mentioned such an allowance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
Additionally, I worked with H&P to test OS3.9 under WinUAE and I explicitly told them I was using it under emulation and they had no problem with that.
You are mentioning a company (H&P) that was using GIF code without a license from Unisys, MP3 code without a license from Fraunhofer/Thomson, and who (according to Amiga) kept selling "Amiga OS 3.9" without a valid license... It doesn't sound like this "no problem" came from a reputable source, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
It's called format-shifting and is completely legal.
Here you can read about "format shifting":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Format_shifting

It doesn't exactly say that it is "completely legal" ("Copyright law may not allow..."), but it should be clear enough that it does not apply to making a copy of one piece of software for use on another machine. Plus the copyright exemption, if any, would apply only to libraries and similar institutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
According to your argument it even would be illegal to remove a ROM from one Amiga and put it into another.
Why do you claim that I claimed such things? I never did.

An Amiga ROM chip is an original part. I don't see a problem combining different original parts (not duplicating them) for repair purposes. Do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
In fact according to your argument all emulation that isn't explicitly sanctioned by the original manufacturer would be illegal, which is patently not the case.
No, you are again resorting to putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

Writing a software emulation of some hardware is one thing. That's what UAE (without ROMs or other third-party software) is, for example.

Copying unmodified copyrighted ROM and other software files without a license is a different thing. It involves no work, and it is very simple to define: it is theft.

You can also rewrite the ROMs with a clean-room or similar approach. Several emulators have compatible ROMs that do not use any of the original code. WinUAE using the AROS code (which incidentally was supported by Cloanto, and even included in Amiga Forever 2012) is one such attempt.

You can learn more about emulation on this very nice site:

http://www.amigaforever.com/emulator/

In rare cases a software emulation may also infringe on trademarks, which are easy to work around (simply remove the marks) and patents, which usually will have expired by the time a piece of hardware is emulated. So I am not considering these, although they were relevant in the early days of UAE (according to Gateway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
And I have not seen any statement by them to the effect that they think it's illegal.
I have, and that's why Hyperion was not able to use the 3.9 code to make 4.0 (they had to revert to 3.1), remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
I do recall them trying to claim OS4 was illegal, but the judge did not agree.
Incorrect again, I am afraid. Amiga and Hyperion settled (there never was a judge agreeing or not agreeing on anything).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
I suppose you think Amiga dealers such as AmigaKit who sell OS3.9 are criminals then?
I don't know what they are doing. But perhaps you would like to open a new thread for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuous View Post
It doesn't matter. The end result was still that it didn't get ported. There was nothing stopping Cloanto from porting it themselves, or to getting some other company than Amiga Inc. to port it. Or of course they could even open source it if they aren't planning on doing anything with it.
Of course it matters. Plus, it is well known that Cloanto will give the source code to any developer who asks for it to try to port it. Several people got it already. Their stated goal is to make it build on at least one of AmigaOS 4, AROS or MorphOS before releasing it to the public at large. There were recent discussions about this on amiga-news.de.

Why don't you use Google before posting? It would make this thread much shorter...
 
 
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