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Old 09 December 2009, 01:33   #234
Dan Locke
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Shadow of the Beast II isn't a very good game on the Amiga either, so that doesn't prove anything.
Excuse me? I was using it as an example of the generally lower standards that the Amiga has regarding platformers. Its rating on LemonAmiga is currently 7.16, with generally positive comments, while every review and forum post that I've seen from Genesis owners concerning the near-identical Genesis version has been emphatically negative. It's an excellent proof of my point that Amiga platformers have an overall lower standard of quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
But I'm sure Superfrog would do quite well.
Yeah, if they completely redesigned the levels and fixed the controls.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Chuck Rock II is colorful, has great gameplay, level-design and is equally as linear as many console games.
And it was originally developed for the Genesis before being ported to the Amiga, like Global Gladiators, Turrican III, Wiz 'n' Liz, and Puggsy (and those are just the ones that I can think of on a whim). So, you're essentially using the quality of console platformers to "prove" that Amiga platformers are better than those on the consoles.

Way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Flashback isn't really a platformer.
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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Prince of Persia is excellent for its platforming and puzzles.
So, while Prince of Persia is a platformer, Flashback isn't? Despite the fact that they're almost exactly the same game, but with a gun instead of a sword in the latter? What am I missing here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Donkey Kong Country is seriously an extremely linear tech-demo, but because of it's groundbreaking graphics it's considered a better game than it deserves.
That "tech-demo" may have been as linear as Super Mario World, but it was still an excellent game with loads of unique features.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Super Metroid I haven't tried
PLAY IT NOW.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
but I've played some of Super Castlevania. Good game, but still not really any better than the best the Amiga has.
I never said anything of the sort - I just used it as an example of a well-made SNES game. It's "not really better than the best" games on the PC and Genesis, either, but so what? That's not the point that I'm trying to prove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The issue here, I think, is that a lot of the platformers you're talking about (give or take a couple) are based on a japanese platforming style.
Say what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
A lot of their games incorporated typical RPG elements, which isn't too strange considering how big rpgs were in Japan at the time. What I see is a clear difference between western style platformers and japanese style platformers. I grew up with both, and I really didn't envy the consoles at all back then. I found Sonic quite interesting, but not much else.
What would be an example of a "Japanese" platformer versus a "Western" platformer? Half of the games that I mentioned in the Genesis list were American and European, and most of them were also on the SNES.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The thing is, all consoles have bad examples of platformers.
No, really? I had absolutely no idea!

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Comparing the worst platformers on the Amiga to the best on the SNES is unfair, and vice versa of course.
And when did anybody in this thread even approach doing that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The number of great games on the Amiga might be smaller, but the way people are talking about it, it's like the Amiga is a crappy machine for platformers.
No, it's an excellent machine with way more bad platformers than the consoles have, and fewer good ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The console fanboyism seems to have grown to great heights the last decade, and suddenly decided the Amiga was a crappy system.
Are you calling me a console fanboy?

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The snobbery is all over the place now. I just find that disgustingly juvenile and quite frankly ignorant.
You must be reading a different thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
I keep reading how Superfrog is supposedly a bad platformer, but I've never seen anyone actually explain why.
Floaty controls, aimless level design, spikes that kill you instantly at the slightest touch regardless of how many hit points you have, unkillable enemies with no indication that they are such, straightaways that encourage Sonic-style running but end in more spikes, absolutely atrocious jumping controls, excessive backtracking, and very annoying music.

There. And there isn't anything that I mentioned above that hasn't already been said by others - plenty of people have pointed out Superfrog's frankly stupid design errors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The first forest world isn't so good, but once you get inside and there is more emphasis on the level-design than just a big world with coins spread around, it's actually fantastic. If you hate on Superfrog, you better have played past the forest world, 'cause it's when you get to the castle it starts to shine.
No, that's when the game stops giving you the finger and starts punching you in the face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
ere are a few platformers that I think are close to or as good as those you mentioned:

Superfrog
NO.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Chuck Rock II
Cool, an average console platformer that's as good as the average console platformer. What'll they think of next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Leander
Would have been a great game without the unavoidable boulders.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Ruff'n'Tumble
Ace game, better than most stuff on the consoles.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Fire'n'Ice
Never really got into it, and what's with the ST sound?

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Lionheart
Awesome game; I love the level designs, and the graphics are insane.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Arabian Nights
Really good, it's like those old Spectrum platformers, but playable.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
GODS
It might have been worth playing if the controls hadn't been so broken.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Magic Pockets
Seriously? That's one of the worst platformers that I've ever played, gameplay-wise. For someone who complains about the undue respect that Donkey Kong Country gets for having good graphics, you seem to be valuing style over substance yourself.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Yo! Joe!
I never really cared much for that one, but it's definitely console-quality.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The First Samurai
Eh.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Turrican 1
Garbage

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
2
AWESOME.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
3
Another console game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Soccer Kid
Pretty cool mechanic with the ball, but I never liked it as much as I did Arabian Nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Harlequin
I don't know what everybody else is seeing in this game; it's awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
James Pond 2
Too much empty space; it gets boring. I liked the body-stretching, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
3
Never played it.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Jim Power
Mediocre, and it looks hideous to boot.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The Lost Vikings
Yet another console game.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Nicky Boom 1
I love the level designs in that game.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
2
Never played it.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Parasol Stars
Never played it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Prince of Persia
I've only played the original Apple II version, but I absolutely love it. Although it seems a bit pointless to bring it up in a discussion of consoles versus Amiga when it was ported to practically every system under the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
The Viking Child
Never played it.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Venus the Flytrap
Mediocre.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Switchblade 1
Belongs on the Spectrum.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
2
Belongs in the trash.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
etc
I can only assume that you're referring to Benefactor here, in which case I totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Sure, it's a matter of taste. But there's no factual reasons why these games are any worse than the console games.
Sure there are. The ones that were originally developed for the consoles have worse graphics (fewer colors, fewer parallax layers), while many others on the list hamper the player with bad controls or unfair "difficulty".

No numbers, but if those were required to judge value, you'd never be able to say that Blade Runner is any better or worse than Battlefield Earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
What is universally acclaimed isn't always the best.
SUPERFROG

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
What I do envy the console gamers though, are the side scrolling beat'em ups. THAT was a genre badly represented on the Amiga. SEGA had the great Streets of Rage series, and Nintendo and SEGA had the best ports of arcade games like Final Fight and Golden Axe (the Amiga version was good, but we only got the first one). VS fighters were just as badly represented, with Mortal Kombat being the best arcade ports, and Shadow Fighter and Fightin' Spirit the best Amiga-only games - both of which were no match for the Street Fighter ports on the SNES.
Yeah, Fightin' Spirit is pretty much the only good beat-em-up on the Amiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
So, some genres are better, some are worse and some are rather equal. I'd say platformers are rather equal, if you're not fanatically into Mario or Sonic.
Consoles had more good ones and fewer bad ones, and "Sonic clones" were only one subgenre in a field of various types, so I'm not sure what you're getting at by that.

Last edited by Dan Locke; 09 December 2009 at 02:43.
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