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Old 13 August 2009, 03:36   #16
Photon's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,296
Skan, Stingray

I think Stingray sounded angry cos he has gotten the "wanna make a demo with me? I can make the logo!" question many times, and below are some reasons why he maybe doesn't enjoy those :P

For me code pr0n is not enjoyable if it has boring ideas or effects. Design is something different; it makes it more passable for the vast majority of non-coders, and coders who don't know what's possible for that platform. "It looks nice".

For me it's about experiencing cool ideas and effects, especially impossible effects where you couldn't figure out "how the fuck did they do THAT!?" left you in awe. Kind of like the "sense of wonder" in oldskool science fiction novels. As with everything, the older you are the more you have seen, so those books don't fill you with the same awe anymore.

But with demos it's different, for some reason. As long as you don't do it too often, a cup of coffee and a garishly-colored demo with cool scenarios and effects is still awesome! Even if the demo is just some simple unimpressive effect-seen-before thing, you can feel a warm sense of nostalgia... like seeing a good old friend or a good old tv show...

For modern platforms, if it weren't for scene people still caring, why aren't all demos rendered animations? No engine could beat its quality, and all* demos are strictly scripted to show the same sequence of frames. And with cool scenarios and ideas and effects, it would be the same thing.

But the thing with demos is that all* the people watching know it's the hardware generating what you see and hear, and therefore much harder to do. It's a cool "non-productive" use of technology, and part of it is that you know some things are hard to do. Also, you know that if something is impressive and you know it's made by a handful of guys sacrificing only the few hours of free time they have, it's even more impressive. "Hey, who are you? Ah, you did that?? That's so cool and well-done!". Everyone wants to be the one to hear that, and that's the reason being in the scene. Much more sane than someone struggling for 15 years to be the first one to jump 1cm higher than the world champion

I'm typing so much... I must be philosophical today

As for making a nostalgic/satirical look-back-on-old-games demo, it's the same there. It will be good if the idea and effects are good. Some people have already become "youtube famous" by making such videos - but ofc (see above) videos are not demos.

The ideas and their realization is the hardest part of demomaking, since it runs on real hardware making new effects take a lot more time than coding them. A lot of testing and if the end result looks crap you might have to think up another effect, test and code that. The other hard part is knowing if the idea itself is cool And when you have a notebook full of cool ideas the ante is upped, it takes willpower to do all the hours unless you code just for the joy of coding! I feel that way now, but it hasn't always been that way - other things have been equally fun.

And since so few 15yos are into demos and want the goal we want (compared to the large number of ol' geezers like us, I mean), and since a big part of the old 15yos have left the scene or changed platform, you'll have to tolerate the current rate of releases, as Stingray said. That's absolutely not saying you shouldn't make it happen, ofc

He's also right that the scene needs more coders - musicians and graphics artists far outnumber them, and coding takes a lot more time. I know this too, and so I got the idea for the Asm Skool on But I got sidetracked (studies, then working away from home) but I've been writing content on occasion and now that I'm coding I'm putting some sources aside for it from time to time. So, any century now (tm)

There's all the material you'll need already available on the web to learn coding ofc, the reason for coppershade would be "a cozy place where people can get a shortcut tutorial for the beginner stuff and I can write some non-obvious tricks and results of chipset exploration with some juicy sources". Like I enjoyed! (I've read all the stories now I think...)

Last edited by Photon; 13 August 2009 at 03:46.
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