Thread: Amiga Vs ST
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Old 30 July 2009, 04:15   #183
dlfrsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Where was "dynamic palettizing" used in Amiga Golden Axe?
Dynamic palettizing is the palette changed dynamically during the game. It's used in Golden Axe in order to counter the lack of color. You can check the effect on level 1 when you go thru the 1st level part to the rock part, and the rock part to the Boss area. Dynamic palettizing is common in coin-op machines....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
In the early days the Amiga wasn't really supported because of its price
I stop you right here. The amiga was not really supported because most coders were only used to code mono-CPU machines like the atari ST at first. It's known for a fact that the amiga custom chips are not easy to code and use. This has nothing to do with the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
then games got ported from ST to Amiga, not really using the Amiga's hardware.
Not used at all ! Pure 68000 coding from atari ST ! Take a look at Mercs code, crippled of TRAP instructions and no hardware calls !. The game is slow as hell like most US gold that were straight ST ports. I can list other games, and strangely, they are all slow, have crap playability, and have horrible palettes and use ST graphic files => Alien Storm, Mercs, Mega twins, etc, etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Then games were developed for both, starting to use the Amiga's custom chips. Then there was Amiga development with a really bad ST conversion because the hardware wasn't up to it and finally the ST died and Amiga went it alone for a while.
We had unambitious games, poor colors, rubbish sounds, poor playability in many cases.... For how many good ones ? Really bad ST conversion because the games to convert where almost impossible to port from the amiga to the ST. Look at Jim Power, Mr nutz, Lionheart. Those games are only possible on machines using co-processors and custom chips !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Whilst the Amiga has lots of lovely hardware I always felt restricted by the custom chips only being able to access 512K, once 1MB of memory was common. FAT Agnus meant more memory was accessible on the A500+, A600 and A1200 (gross agnus ) but commercially I had to write for the common platform which was A500.
Ok, your move creep Which programs did you code for Amiga ? We are all here very curious to know your deeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
The Amiga's hardware also stole cycles off the 68K, particularly with the blitter running full blast, but there was still the opportunity for some parallel processing although I doubt the hardware in the Amiga would have been much use for 3D modelling hence David Braben's comments re: ST CPU speed.
Yes it steal cycles off. That's how it is created. The 68K on amiga is not the main part, to the contrary of the Atari ST where it's the main one.
On ST the 68K handles everything alone, from the toilet paper managing to the "mum, i'm hungry i want to eat" crying sound On amiga the 68K task is to drive the custom chips ; The same way a 68K on a coin-op machine
drive the sound via a z80 which drives the sound chip and the tiles generated/displayer/VDP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
The Amiga's hardware sprites were a frustration to, I thought they were a bit messy and were only suitable for games which had been designed to use them if you see what I mean. Although their usage created some nice, interesting code.
Good coders know how to bypass this..... it's too limited to be used...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
The Amiga's hardware also had some timing issues, not all Amiga's were built the same. Software which was at the limit of the machine worked OK on some Amiga's but on others there were display glitches etc so certain things were restricted. Whereas an ST was an ST, worked on all of them.
Bullshit, on the moment you code for A500,1000,2000 , it's up to you as coder to respect the compatibility. About timing issue, it's worse on atari ST/STE since one of them didn't had any blitter. You remember above what i wrote about the role of the 68K on an atari ST and on amiga ?
If you code a game for an STF, meaning you will use software tricks, you code is made to use fully the CPU. This means that to make the code use the blitter, you have to code from scratch, because here the CPU will drive blitter operations (since blitter use is coded in 68K ASM). That was one reason why developers almost never used STE particularities. You are forgetting TOS incompatibilities also which gives : crash, graphic glitches,etc..... See ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
As far as games are concerned, the operating systems were meaningless - I never used any of the ST's OS and the only thing I ever asked the Amiga's OS was "what CPU have you got?", "how much memory"? and "where is is?" then all the vectors got overwritten and I took over
Yes that was the common rules to kick the OS and then took over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
Ultimately the ST was a better work tool and the Amiga a better console, what made me laugh was how serious the people who wrote the Amiga's OS were thinking it was some kind of business machine - Commodore only got hold of it by accident, it should really have been an Atari in my opinion.
The ST was a better tool work ? if you mean as a dev machine, the answer is yes for converting to 8 bits machines, but far too limited to create games on amiga. We had Deluxe Paint for GFX, best sound at the moment,
and excellent ASM assemblers ! The amiga was made in mind to be the best computer the world could see back in 1985. It has so many possibilities in hardware, it's able to read many disk formats (C64, PC 720kb, atari ST, GCR mac disks...), ability to do ReadTrack (The atari ST cannot do that in standard, ex : On Maupiti islands, lankhor had to derivate the OS to do readtrack..... Not counting the video and sound possibilities.
The amiga is a WAY more complete and equilibrate machine. After the professional tools availables depends not on the computer but the willing of companies to code them on a target machine. The amiga never was an atari, i see the fantasm about "Nya nya nya, the amiga is in fact an atari
blablabla. Tramiel has lost, commodore has bought the machine, period !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
As Jay Miner said, "I am not surprised at what people have done with the Amiga but it still amazes me what people do with the Atari 400 and 800". For me the Amiga will always be the Atari 16000
Ahahah, stop dreaming, our machine will never be an Atari and it never was !
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