[Thorham]

Originally Posted by meynaf

This part can be reduced quite a lot, but it's not worth because it doesn't have a measurable impact on speed.

Yeah, sorry, I noticed that too late.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Lossy ? Did I read lossy ?
Did you measure the decoding time it gets ?

No, I didn't, I just wanted to know the effect of this lossy optimization. I'm also going to replace all of the multiply blocks with lossy optimizations too hear how it sounds. When that's done, and it's worth it, I'll take measurements.

Originally Posted by meynaf

*ahem* Perhaps you need to know that the purpose of this optimization is actually to raise quality, not lower it.

Didn't know that. In that case my lossy optims are pointless in a high quality version.

Originally Posted by meynaf

If you want to be faster with lower quality, just select "medium" instead of "high" (and it will sound better than you think)

I've tested with high in Deli, and it doesn't sound as good as the lossy optims+Hippo. Odd...

Originally Posted by meynaf

*cough*

Indeed

Originally Posted by meynaf

Funny, but dangerous. Many coefficients here are zero, and if you change constants there may seem to be no difference. And one day you'll check an MP3 with much higher values and get bogus sound.

Possible, but still worth trying in my opinion.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Lossy things like that can be subject to quality settings, but they need to gain a lot of cpu power to be really acceptable. Is it the case here ?

Depends. If all of those mul blocks can be made like the one I showed you, then it might actually save a nice amount of cpu time. Simply has to be tested.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Besides, they're not acceptable at all for high quality setting, and this is the ultimate goal.

Of course they aren't. I'm actually thinking about making those lossy optims an option that can be set in a config file, or something.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I find this strange. Even though there are insns that are not useful, lea isn't among them !

True, but I guess move takes care of everything. But I'm not doing that anymore. Time to use lea

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, it wasn't by the time you posted, but now it can (see attached file).

Cool! I'll take a look and see if it's possible to do even more

Originally Posted by meynaf

Of course, if you see things like that ;-)

That's how I see it

Originally Posted by meynaf

This is cheap solution. Using dma would require to add a new dma channel.
Also, HD back in 1992 weren't fast enough to push this system to its limits.

It's cheap indeed. Dma is still better I this case, because the cpu doesn't have to read the data. Always better.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Not more expensive if it finally takes over like x86 did. Probably cheaper in fact, because of simpler architecture. You just need equal sales volume.

Okay, but then why are they using a more complex architecture if it doesn't make for a faster cpu?

Originally Posted by meynaf

About the challenge, there can still be some. If it's not making it faster, could be making it smaller. Or make enormous computations (such as video encoding or world simulations) run faster

Yes, but I personally like Amiga speeds, it makes more things challenging

Originally Posted by meynaf

I have some fun in store for you then/

Okay, show me then!

Originally Posted by meynaf

This is what I'm doing, actually. Other layers are a remote todo list/

Good, keep them there

Originally Posted by meynaf

I want to see yours then.

It depends on your ability to describe things in a clear and compact way.

Originally Posted by meynaf

That depends on the coders reading skills/

Not in my opinion

Originally Posted by meynaf

IMO the worse coding style is the most frequently used one...

Perhaps. I haven't seen a lot of C code, so I wouldn't know.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Unsure. More lines in overall means less meaningful lines on actual view.

Yes, but a routine is often made up out of smaller parts of multiple instructions. In my opinion these parts should be separated by blank lines, which I do a little bit too often, perhaps. The key is not over doing it.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Yeah, that sure is big, but there are bigger ones.

Like what?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Don't turn on mixing, it's useless and just wastes time (and it won't use 14bit genie). Also don't use AHI, or quality will decrease (but then you deserved it) !

Alright, but how do I get Deli to use the 14 bit genie?

Originally Posted by meynaf

If DT2 is dreadful on your machine, then there's something wrong with your setup...
Besides, if it's really dreadful, then it's not DT but its mpegaplayer plugin.

Well, besides not using the 14 bit genie, it's actually your quality settings that don't sound to hot.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Or... Are you SURE it wasn't one of your lossy tests which got used ?

Absolutely. Also, I've been using Hippo all the time after getting really annoyed with Deli. I tried Deli out of the box, just the way you supplied it. And like I said, the lossy optims sound fine in Hippo.

Originally Posted by meynaf

I forgot to tell you that doing a lib flush isn't enough : you must also eject the mpega player before ! (open the players window and click on "clear" to do this quickly)

Right. I thought you had to restart the program for this .

Originally Posted by meynaf

Or... Are you playing something with settings just too high ? If so, it'll sound bad but it's just because there are small "holes" in the replay. If you check "mono" the quality will be normal. Playing with settings your cpu can't handle is looking for bad quality/

That's not what I mean with bad quality. What I mean is AM radio like quality. Not that that dreadful, but it's going in that direction.

Originally Posted by meynaf

It's worth trying (if I have something new to actually test), even though I prefer to have timings up to the frame even for 30 seconds...

Can't say I disagree here.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Such short cuts are for low, perhaps medium, qualities only. Not for high, and high is the goal.

High is going to be tough, mate, good luck. Perhaps a separate lossy version?

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sometimes the mul just can't be avoided... and then you're happy when you have a 060 !

Indeed.

Originally Posted by meynaf

But Deli doesn't give worse quality than Hippo...

Odd, guess I'll try again.

Originally Posted by meynaf

There aren't many now, apart in the not time critical parts.

Okay, I guess they can stay in then.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Perhaps it's just that 14 bit calibration problem again. I have no trouble with DT.

To me Deli is a headache man. And it's not a calibration problem. Calibrated 14 bit sounds better than non calibrated, but non calibrated still sounds a million times better than 8 bit.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Didn't you try DT after your lossy tests ? I suspect this version wasn't used by Hippo (perhaps it holds the lib permanently) but later used by DT !

While I did try Deli with my lossy optims, I also tried it out of the box. Further more, Hippo doesn't hold the library, I know this because I have used the color macros in your source code, cycling through colors as I changed more things. A flush lib is enough.

Originally Posted by meynaf

There are none.

Sad

Originally Posted by meynaf

Btw if you really think it's crap when playing MP3, I have resourced the player too. But it's not that. Quality on DT is same as decoded wave and if it's not the case for you there's something wrong and it's not DT itself.

Perhaps, maybe I'm just screwing up, maybe there is something else. I'll try to figure it out.