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Old 08 January 2002, 01:52   #18
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Auckland / New Zealand
Posts: 3,100
memory protection simply isn't possible without a total rewrite of all applications, since different tasks in AmigaDOS routinely walked each other's & system library linked lists, also the device i/o structures were accessed by different processes, not to mention you could pass a pointer to some memory you allocated -- whoops, memory sharing violation again
Well presumably the system allocated that memory for you and if that's the case, the system would create those linked lists and mark them as readable by the process - hence no fault. It wouldn't require a complete rewrite for that change...

Anyway memory protection is fine for multi user systems I guess but I personally love being able to rip pictures and sound by scanning through the entire memory.

you've provided a lot of examples of 3rd party hacks (yes, hacks) which implement various bits & pieces, but none of them are even close to widely supported
Please tell me the equivalent programs to XFD, XAD etc which can depack/decrunch almost every filetype or crunched file on the PC? As for hacks, Amiga programs are beautiful in their library elegance - open the shared libraries you need and away you go! Why is something like XFD/XAD considered a hack? If you looked at the source you would see how modular and elegant they are, I have been able to code 5 XFD Decrunchers for various exotic file formats very easily.

Let's compare modularity of say Eagleplayer on Amiga with Microsoft Media Player - how many times does the M$ app say "unknown format, attempting coded download" then shits itself. I honestly don't think they have a clue how to recognise a file on the PC, the vain hope that it is trying to download a codec which always fails (it has never worked for me) is laughable.

you left out in your reply is that all the programs you cited are 3rd party programs, none of which (let me qualify this -- and you can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe I am) have anything close to general acceptance.
You need to get real and up to date with stuff like XFD, XAD and XVS. A freeware constantly updating system of virus recognition, decrunching and file archiving utils beats any PC equivalent. You can include a virus checker in about 5 lines of code, exactly what my Disk unpacking util Diskwiz does - open xvs, read bootblock from game, ask xvs library to virus check it for me - no Norton needed And the whole xvs library, 100k at most...

heck you can pretty much emulate the "ASSIGN" command with the "Map Network Drive" tool in Explorer (or the NET USE command if you wanna use the command prompt) as long as you have any kind of networking set up.
Yeah right, what a load of crap - maximum of 26 devices named A: to Z:, take away C:, A: and D: you're left with 23. You can only map to certain things on PC's, often a Win 2000 machine can access a resource on the net that Win 98 can't but can the 2000 machine share that for Win98? Hell no...

My Amiga has unlimited assigns, I can do stuff like:

assign games: dh1:whdload/games defer
assign asm: work:assembler/

or for pc one character lovers/lamers:

assign d: pc:d ;network PC connection!

The assign command with defer doesn't clutter up my requesters until I use it. I don't have to remember what X: happens to be, I can use a sensible name like ASM: for assembler stuff. I'm not limited to 26. I can assign from the CLI or startup-sequence rather than having to go and map network drives (and that NET USE command is crap - don't pretend it does even 10% of the Amiga's assign command). The current game I'm working on I usually setup as WIP:, drop to cli, cd wip: done...

multiview, yes, isn't that the application that lets you open any type of picture? Did any other program actually use datatypes? That must have been a post-Commodore addition to the OS.
You obviously haven't ever seen WB3. Multiview and datatypes were standard since 1992, even put into WB2.1 for older Amiga's without AGA.

As for programs that use datatypes, again you don't know what you're talking about. Check Aminet, tonnes of apps use them. I use PPShow still today to view packed files and weird types...

i used to miss the shell. in fact i do occasionally bail out to the dos prompt to edit scripts and such (my MAME cabinets run under DOS so I still have to deal with that) but i realized that what i really missed from the shell was pattern-matching. that was remedied once i found out about the built-in "search" function of windows.
Have you heard of KingCon handler?

c:w (hit tab) -> c:whdload

Pattern matching has been in the Amiga O/S since 2.0 (1991ish?):

list games:m#?k
search games:warez.txt m#?k#?
copy df0:~(#?.info|devs|s)

Again MS-Dos is utter shit in comparison to Amiga - plus on Amiga any app can open a Shell window rather than having to boot in a Dos only mode. (Yes I know pc's can Alt-Enter but that is a naff equivalent)

You don't get the built in copy/paste support from the Dos command window like the amiga either, long winded way to be able to mark - no scrollback buffer (until win 2000) no filename completion (still)... jesus how did pc's ever take off when they are so damn lame?

if you're really chafing on the limitations of windows, theres probably something you don't know about it. i can't think of any common CLI commands on the Amiga that I miss. heck, explorer integration even makes manipulating compressed archive files relatively easy.
If you saw Directory Opus (even v1) in around 1990/1991 (unknown when it came out but approx 10 years ago!) you would know the pc's explorer window is a joke - an unfunny one at that.

No common commands missing eh, you don't use CLI much I guess:

wait 3 ;wait 3 seconds
addbuffers dh0: 200
flushlibs ;clear libraries in ram no longer needed
ppshow gamesics/rips/#?.gif
delete ram:#?~(t|env|clipboards) all
assign df0: dismount

Windows/Command has about 25 commands (.exe), mostly crap. Amiga I would guess has about 50 so don't pretend you can do anything like what you can on the Amiga from the CLI. I type "mk" and it recompiles my HD versions of games, copies into relevant dirs, copies latest readme/instructions, creates HD version, install archive and source archive and then tests them and checks output of text file for no error to tell me at the end a list of archive testing. Try and do that on a PC - I think that takes about 30 lines on the Amiga, mostly the same as it builds 3 archives

in summary, there's a huge amount of code which causes all the much ballyhooed "bloat", but its all this code which makes Windows programs interoperate so well, which is functionality that the Amiga never saw, even with ARexx (although ARexx was a great stab at it).
Yes I love the way PC's crash all the time, the clipboard loses data just by switching to a certain application and back to the one which you copied the data in, the fact that if the keyboard is unplugged when Windows starts then you have no mouse, the 30 mins for a basic (ie. useless) windows install vs about 5 mins on the Amiga...

Sorry but if you think bloatware gives a great O/S, would you rather debug a 1000 line program or a 1 million line one? And which do you think will be more stable?

How many people would start up retro PC sites if the PC died today? Not many I think, they would move on and realise what a pile of shit the PC is. Yet look at the number of Amiga sites for the number of users, incredibly high I would say.

If I want to play an old game like Double Dragon 2 on the Amiga, just fire up WHDLoad and I can play it. I'd like the equivalent of that on the PC, I remember a friend with 16Mb of Ram was told "sorry you need 1Mb of ram to play formula one grand prix" on the pc. Classic... Thank god MAME came out, otherwise I wouldn't have much reason to use PC's at home!

PC's have a few good features but overall they are buggy, bloatware, prone to crash, inconsistent and the O/S is nothing other than thousands of hacks sitting on top of each other disguising a clumsy old O/S.

I love the way PC programs decide that if you started them from one place that you always want to save in My Documents folder on C:, or the desktop. Even Photoshop if you choose save as changes to the bloody desktop by default, how lame is that? And the PC's file requester, what a joke! Arp/Reqtools requesters are far better, tell you useful information (pc's always show kb, amiga's being un-bloatware show byte sizes of files!) and you can type WIP: in a file requester and hit enter to change to that. On the PC you have to type d:\amiga\assembler\ etc to get to that path or create a stupid shortcut (ugly hack again).

Also one great Amiga feature you failed to mention - a temporary space for storing files which you don't keep but like to use while the Amiga is powered on - the RAM disk... Can't live without it on Amiga
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