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Old 30 December 2004, 13:31   #11
Photon's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,501
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT
Sorry Photon, but you miss the point entirely.

The fact is, Reflections did it first, and did it before the demo coders.

Before Beast, I'm sorry, but the state of graphics and code wasn't anywhere near as polished as Beast, thats just a fact. Its ok to say "oh we could see how it was done", the fact is, they did it first for you to be able to say that, a world of difference from Reflections taking their cues from the demo scene.
I never said Reflections took their cues from the demo scene. But I'll bet you a million dollars that some demo had multilayer parallax before Beast came out.

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT
Hence why the demo scene then saw fit to duplicate some of the coding tricks employed in Beast in some of their demos.
Yeah, and when Roger Rabbit was released, some guys released Roger Rabbit demos. It's called inspiration. My point was that if a 16 years old demo coder can make a duplicate in two weeks the "coding tricks" (haha) weren't that tricky.

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT
And frankly, if you were as you say not impressed by Beast technically, firstly I would say I think you are being economical with the truth, because just about every demo group then did something that was inspired by Beast! You guys certainly dedicated a lot of effort to a game you claim wasn't very impressive!
Who said it wasn't impressive? I said other coders, who understood what was going on, weren't impressed by the technical side of the game. The graphics were nice, and so they ended up in a Silents vector line scroll demo. The parallax scroll emerged in other demos. And so on.

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but at least be honest
Ditto. If you're honest and understand that Beast was made by looking at what the Amiga could do, dividing the screen up into fixed size playfields, adding color where the copper could do it, reserving sprites for the moon etc etc etc, then you understand that it was tailor made for the Amiga and the custom chips did all the work, so it didn't have to have coding tricks.

They made a fixed layout and figured out a game that could run in it. Because it was so limited, all it had to do to move big monsters or scroll parallaxes smoothly was to poke some pointers and some custom chip registers. (To be fair, I know there is some blitting of smaller objects going on in there, in certain places.)

I'm not knocking Beast or people saying Beast is impressive. I do however defy anyone saying Beast is technically wondrous because "ooh it has many colors and smooth scrolling" because it doesn't need to be technically wondrous to do what it does.

That's all I'm saying. I do give credit to Reflections for the game design that made it possible, it's not often the developers get to design the game nowadays. And of course it's a landmark, due to the graphics and sound. But it only pushed the boundaries for games whose layout is exactly like Beast. Whereas Virus for example pushed the boundaries for filled 3D games in general and Lotus Esprit pushed the boundaries of all those "fake 3D" racing games. Hope you see what I mean
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