Quote:
Originally Posted by coldacid
Perhaps Minuous would be considered wrong in Switzerland and the rest of continental Europe, but in the English speaking, common-law part of the world, the onus is indeed on the plaintiff to demonstrate the guilt of the defendant rather than for the defendant to prove their innocence.
Honestly I found your attitude with this particular post to be very insulting, not just towards Minuous but towards all of us who live in nations using common law instead of Napoleon's autocratic civil law system.
|
Thanks for your honesty. I don't find it so insulting to us in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world" because it didn't address us in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world". Presumption of innocence is a concept in criminal law. Cloanto/Hyperion, from what I gather, is a commercial/civil dispute. The police didn't come and arrest anybody afaik so it can't really be criminal in nature.
They can remedy commercial disputes themselves directly by coming to an agreement on their own (i.e. discussing it), or use a competent third party (such as a lawyer) to negotiate on their behalf. If an agreement can't be reached and can prove civil law has been broken, you can sue and the matter is decided for you. You can do all of this prior to having a "verdict" (despite Minuous' claim).
To say "this is basic stuff we learned in high school" and then get it so fundamentally wrong (and he/she knows he/she did because he/she retracted the statement shortly thereafter) merits the response given. To use an obviously false claim (civial/ciminal law is taught in high school as a basic skill) to prove the illegitimacy of another claim is comical at best, arrogant at worst. Maybe we in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world" should be insulted here instead somehow.
Minuous cannot be blamed for not understanding the legals in this, and I don't mock him/her for this. I also had to look it up myself and learn a little. And I am sure I got something wrong here as well but the ensuing flame war will point that out soon enough. Why? because neither of us are lawyers. And he/she for sure didn't "learn it" even if it were taught.
To help inform myself a little I found this:
https://yla.org.au/nsw/topics/courts...nd-being-sued/
Quote:
You can break both the criminal and the civil law at the same time but you can ONLY be sued if you have broken a civil law.
And this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presum...dern_practices
Quote:
In many countries, the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial
Finally, if you attempt to mock/insult someone or their point by implying they are uneducated (and yes, Minuous did exactly that) then you need to be prepared to take it on the chin. Minuous seemingly has done so plus points to Minuous. Perhaps, coldacid, you can re-evaluate what you find insulting.