Thread: H&P is back
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Old 07 September 2003, 16:52   #31
Fjrb
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portugal
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally posted by manicx 1. They are serious: This can only be good
I meant they are serious referring to the potentiality of their criminal activities. As in: a puch is non-serious criminal event, murdering someone is a serious criminal event.

In what IP is referred to, H&P's are extremely serious, as mentioned, i doubt they get any more serious. By reading your post, i get the impression your are not totally aware of the range and extent of H&P's extra curricular activities.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx 2. They ripped off people: We don't know anything.
Small corrections: "Many people," and "I don't know."

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx If somebody was ripping me off
You would have to be producing professional programming output and signing contracts and possibly NDA's for that. You aren't - i assume & presume - which is usually people's number one problem with understading both the background and the environment of these questions.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I would sue him and win the case.
I don't doubt that could happen in any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Unfortunately in the real world, if you sued, you'd end up with no money, debts, possibly defended by an unexperient lawer in IP matters, lose the case, and even risking getting sued by H&P back.

Again, this is the number one problem with people usually commenting these issues - besides the nearly pseudo religious tones to it - they don't or never had any real world experience in cases as such.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx So, if people were ripped off, why don't they sue them.
If you had any experience or knowledge of real world situations as opposed to elusive movie scripts, you'd know how actually and unfortunately none of the rights you speak of can be acessed.

And, after working for a couple of years and getting his work stolen, how much ├Žnima do you think he has to spent another couple of years basically going from "personal bankruptcy" into "deeply in debt."

Nevermind the psychological ramblings of being 4 or 5 years with no real work\pay relationship, which can never be repayed.

Then, after that half a decade of labour, no sleep and debts, what would he do with his Amitlhon? Burn it in a CD and sell them a pop in ebay.com...

I don't think you understand the real world unfortunate circumstances these hard working professionals who provide you applications and content live under.

To me these settings only outline and underline the inherent dishonest, amoral, and sadistic nature of some of these events.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Basically, people can say whatever they say. I may set up a website and say "H&P ripped me off".
So - I'm not really disagreeing with you - Bernie is a nutcase - a thieving nutcase at that - and probably should be commited instead of programming professional & commercial software?

Everyone else that has ever accused H&P, and god knows they were many, are apparently hordes of either ignorant and malinformed types or just plain evil doers with a mysterious fixation on this precise company.

Again, it really can be true, however once you put possiblity A against possiblity B and from a distance attempt to make a decision, it can really be refreshing to notice which one is more likely to be the case.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx People will comisserate me.
Or attack you rabidly at loyalty with a corporation which has more money than you, more acess to lawyers than you, more resources than you, and more popular following than you.

A couple of sod's like me may comiserate, but that's not much, is it?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx As I said, we are end users and have no bloody idea about contracts (...), business laws etc.
Again, you should really be using the I instead of the We...

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Time is passing really fast and all I can think now, is why the hell I was not buying more original software before 95. After 95 I am only with originals, before that it was a messy situation. I ripped off companies and developers and nearly everyone in this board did. It's ridiculous to comment on the sins of others without self critisizing our own crap.
If we ask forgiveness to the GODS of H&P, perhaps they'll atone our sins. Maybe we should flagelate ourselves and our pockets at the behest of H&P. And, then, maybe we'll fell less guitly. Even that, is a stolen idea 2000 years old.

On piracy: It's very nice that you feel guilty by that situation, i feel too, and hopefully most people do. However if piracy killed platforms - PC would be dead, PSX=Dead, N64=Dead, GBA=Dead. What kills platforms is bad managemnt, incompetent and\or greedy accounting, and lack of product quality.

Windows3.1 was the most pirated software ever. Period. I typed www.microsoft.com, and surprisinly they were still there, i typed www.commodore.com and got nothing.

Again, if you feel guilty - it only shows you're a moral person - remember that two wrongs don't make a right.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx H&P did absolutely nothing bad comparing to many companies that ripped off people in the past
This statement leads me to believe you're not fully ware of the whole situation's history.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx and they abandoned the Amiga when the Amiga was needing them.
You mean The Bitmap Brothers? Codemasters? Infogrames?

Those bastards! They had nothing to do with sucess of the Amiga... H&P was the man!

Well, those people left the Amiga for good reason. You know, as mentioned in my previous post, competent professionals leave the boat when they see incompetent management.

In fact the managment 'abandoned' the developers, the content creators and the publishers. So, they left.

You know, maybe a vagabond dog also calls his fleas, friends, and, 'The only ones have stuck with me.'

But we, all looking at the situation from outside, realise they're just parasites sucking what little blood is left, aren't they?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Go, on, blame H&P. As I said, if you uninstall all the software they released for the Amiga, you'll end up with a computer booting a nice gray screen. I
Well, that's just a matter of taste, but i actually love plain WB's...

For a real, modern, digital desktop solution? Well, i use real, modern, digital desktop solutions. Again, just taste.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx think, it's ridiculous to comment on H&P and not other companies who killed the Amiga.
So I shouldn't point my finger at Charles Manson, without pointing it at the other thousands of murders through history. It's a complete fallacy.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx As I said, my A4k is happy to use H&P software.
Oh, i'm not saying otherwise, quite the contrary, mine would be probably 'happy' as well - to the extent machines can be antropomorphised - just my human conscience wouldn't.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I am happy to use their software.
Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy with adultery too, it's when i think about what would be my betrayed wife that it gets problematic.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx If there is a problem, let the courts decide.
Small correction: it's not a problem, they're several, completely unrelated, and recurrent throughout history, problems. I don't even believe the latest problem was the most serious in the curriculum of H&P.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx I am an end user and I buy the best.
The best in what...? You do realise that buying stolen IP is just putting an intermediary in piracy ... i.e.- you go from pirating the publishers, to pirating the developer. In the former the developer gets payed, but the publishers gets stolen. In the later, the developer gets robbed, but the publisher gets payed. Sure, you do shift the crime from the user, to the publisher, which is the one now who's commiting it. But, that's it.

And that's the reason why soon no one will develop nothing for the amiga platform. No one's up to work for two years for nothing and getting their IP stolen. Unless you are?

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx Basically, I believe that
Not wanting to interfere with your beliefs and mini religion going on there, I hope in a handful of years you won't be thinking about how, let me quote you : "Time is passing really fast and all I can think now, is why the hell I was not buying more non-IP-stolen software before 2000. After 2000 I am only with non stolen IP originals, before that it was a messy situation. I ripped off developers and gave money to the ones stealing it."

Of course, then as now, you'll be saying. "Too late." Hopefully competent programmers such as Bernie will be happily working on greener pastures by then.

Quote:
Originally posted by manicx people who are against current Amiga software retailers, are harmful to the Amiga, so well done.
I don't 'believe', I am one hundred per cent absolutely sure, for a fact, that the continuation stealing of IP from Amiga developers will result in their absolute and complete extinction.

So, "Well done."

Anyway, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion about such heated up matters. It's good when things happen this way. I hope you understood most of the points i attempted to make
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