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Old 03 November 2016, 13:44   #28
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43
Posts: 9,768
Firstly my friend, I want you to know I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience, from what you share with our fellow members and the help and advice I have received from you in the past I have found massively invaluable.

This discussion is interesting because I think we are arguing the same point from different heights of the mountain lol!

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
Yes but Altera was always more expenssive than Xilinx and as a spinoff of Intel (in past) closely working with Intel (for many years) and Intel searching for new approach to deliver higher performance (so reprogramable HW on horizon already done on some Xeon CPU line) - it was not difficult to predict Alter acquisition by Intel (and unavoidable increase in price).
I humbly agree, however only from the standpoint of what we would know about the industry, its mergers and acquisitions - sadly we are the few that follow such deep tech deals and details - unfortunately not everyone does know or reads the financial times .

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
I asked multiple times for pre-order possibility or other way of crowd funding - most of us is aware that such design will be expensive and single person may have problem to put such money from a pocket (parts need to be ordered, PCB need to be made and assembled - this is at least 80k U$D for 1000 pcs batch),
I have to admit, I possibly have an ill conceived perception and concerns about "kick starter / Go Fund Me" - crowd funding in general - for group buys of small investment not a problem, however I have read stories of peoples research / work being used on cloned projects.

When you have a project that you are so invested in - I can see, nay feel the concern that someone that is somewhat nefarious would copy your concept / idea and use you hard work - therefore leaving all the effort you have made and invested in for nothing.

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
i was not alone and i was quite happy to take a risk and put for example 150E in upfront for design and production.
150e is a lot of funds for what is essentially a hobby, when I heard the price, I was shocked it was so low for such equipment, however thats just my perspective - I have paid over 300e for a bridge-board that allows me to use defunct PCI adaptors LOL, so I feel me arguing anything on price is questionably valid lol!

I think what the real bite is the price increase - most people were not expecting it and while I feel I am possibly on my own in saying that this should of come sooner - its incredibly easy to upset the Amiga community lol!

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
Well as you said - this is quite subjective but OK i will agree with you that matching other products for Amiga it is very or even more than very good deal for 250E but Amiga market is not healthy and i share Majsta personal feelings - that's why i'm unpleasantly surprised (but as i predicted price increase more than year AFAIR ago then surprise is not so significant).
Personally I don't think "they" had a choice in the price increase, if I have to argue fault I would say communication was the let down here, not surprising when both hardware engineers are scrambling to produce product and simply not having enough time to engage their customers.

This is by no means meant in any derogatory way, its a simple case of underestimating the market in the initial order quantities. After all, the A600 wasn't the most loved machine, and barring the Furia020 and ACA620, it hadn't seen an accelerator in over 20 years!

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
i believe it is fair to express that from perspective of some customers such price may be not acceptable but i believe in overall nobody care about such opinion as market is so hungry that it will accept even twice higher price.
I also never tried to judge anyone ethics, morality etc - business have not ethic or morality and as such merits like this are not appropriate.
I humbly agree sir, if anything I can say about the V2 500 project I can see how some of the community can be get upset and even enraged when they see these items on eBay commanding some very serious funds.

From what I have read Majsta provided these as prototypes to garner more funds for the project as well as negate some people making serious profit on their equipment they bought at 150e.

Sadly I felt this is flawed thinking, not only does it not stop people from selling their legally owned equipment it in some view gives credence to it - e.g. "If they can make that much perhaps I can" - I know this is not the case but others, and I suspect a lot, won't or don't see it that way.

The public don't see that those funds go back in to the project or mitigate losses and costs at the beginning of the project - this is why I would liked to of seen these on a "Go-Fund me" or "Kick Starter" - however legal rules and taxes change from country to country so this probably incurs a lot more messing about, possibly more than its worth.

As I said before hind-sight is an exact science and it doesn't take anyone clever or intelligent to work out problems after the fact - so me turning around and saying - you should of had some one dedicated to communications of sales and information - keeping people updated on their orders and also disseminating all the teams good works to the public at large.

but saying that it would make me "that guy "

Originally Posted by pandy71 View Post
Yes, it is true and fully inline with my previous statement.
Thank You All but particular respect goes to Majsta, Apollo Team and Kipper2k - All You proved something and this is highly inspiriting.
I couldn't agree more my friend thank you for your insights =)
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