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Old 10 March 2016, 00:34   #388
roondar
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 238
Before I begin this post, I’d like to say that I’m not trying to get people to change position about which 8 bit computer they want to use or think is the best. I’m only posting this to correct certain falsehoods being spread about the tape & disk loading speeds of the C64.

I shouldn’t really care, but I just don’t like misinformation - such as regular 9 minute load times being a thing for tape users on the C64.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Roondar, it's not pure software if you need some hardware to store the software.
Oh for….….

If you don't believe a pure software solution can be fast on the C64, you can just take a look at the pure software (no cart here) Mafiosino's Loader (found over at https://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/C...f_fast_loaders, bottom of the list). Which is close to 2x as fast as the FCIII cart based loader (19x vs 10x speed). And doesn't need any additional hardware.

Or check some more ‘pure software’ based loaders in the list at the bottom of this page: https://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/Fast_loader. For example, The Cyber Loader is 16x normal speed, as opposed to the FCIII's 10x speed.

There are more of those available. So, no… You do not need a cart to get a 10x+ speed increase loading from floppy on the C64. Please stop pretending & claiming that this is the case.

Quote:
The space gained in graphic space in ram can be used on c64 to store music and sound fx. On CPC the whole 64kb ram space is used (i remember the coder saying that he fought for bytes !).
This often happened on the C64 as well, with coders complaining about trying to find free bytes. Nothing new or Amstrad specific there.

Quote:
You told me the loading happened in 9 seconds in Opwolf with cart.
I answered the loading on CPC is done in 14 seconds.
I can’t find it back now, but I thought you said in an earlier post that the C64 loaded very slowly, with commercial disk games always taking several minutes to load. If you didn’t say that, I’m sorry to have misrepresented you.

Quote:
Proving ? But the CPC is known to have a fast disk drive, and the ability to load lightning fast the games on tapes. And you're comparing apples and oranges, the amiga has to load way way more data ! And it mainly do track read !
I merely meant that the Amstrad’s loading speed seems too low to be equivalent to the Amiga’s loading speed - which you yourself suggested was how fast the Amstrad’s 3” drive loaded stuff.

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I have some games using standard c64 schemes, like commando, which take ages to load, i can go out buying some chocolate, piss, wank a bit, and it's still has not loaded

None of my c64 tape games load in 2 to 5 minutes.

They all need between 4 and 9 minutes to load from start to the main menu of the game.
Well, proof is always better than conjecture so here are some examples from my own collection - all of these are single load and all are originals, not cracked copies. All of these also load a picture and most load music. Took a while to do this, but hey - I like tape loading music anyway :P

Timing was done manually using a smartphone stopwatch.

Zaxxon - 2 minutes 30 seconds
Parallax - 4 minutes 50 seconds
Arkanoid - 4 minutes 55 seconds
1943 - 3 minutes 50 seconds
Barbarian - 6 minutes - 10 seconds (this one is strange, the tape has massive 10 second gaps of silence between segments it loads in, if they shortened these it would have loaded in under 5 minutes as well)
Solomon’s Key - 3 minutes 55 seconds
Scorpion - 3 minutes 40 seconds

These games didn’t have loading screens, but are still from tape and single load
Foxx Fights Back - 3 minutes 10 seconds
Revenge of the Mutant Camels - 2 minutes 10 seconds
Lords of Midnight - 3 minutes
Doomdarks Revenge - 3 minutes 10 seconds

Also, I couldn’t resist so I got the Commando .tap file from somewhere because I just had to see how bad it was. And it loaded in 4 minutes, 40 seconds… Seems you are very fast at shopping, going to the toilet, etc

Not a single one of these came even close to 9 minutes and the vast majority of them didn’t even take 4 minutes to load.

None of this means the Amstrad didn’t load faster (which it may or may not do, I can't check that), but your statements about tape loading speeds on the C64 are just not true. Tapes don’t take 9 minutes to load to the main menu. Even your example of uber-slowness (Commando) is done in under 5 minutes!

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Altered beast : 12mn30 on side B
Batman the movie : 11 minutes on side A alone.....
Deliverance Stormlord II : 19 minutes (CPC version 3 parts is 11 minutes only !!!)
Golden Axe : 20 min (Side A 7 minutes + 13 minutes on side B)
Shadow Dancer : 16 minutes !!!
Terminator 2 : 19 minutes
Turrican I : 9 minutes on side A alone.... since the game is 2 sides, it's more than 15 minutes of data.
Right, like I said - about 10 minutes per side or about 20 minutes total. Which, obviously, isn’t all loaded at once so you never actually have to wait for that long to start playing!

For example, you load to the main menu of Turrican II in 2 minutes 40 seconds from the original tape. Loading in level 1-1 takes an additional 1 minutes 20 seconds, for a total of 4 minutes to start playing.

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You're misleading with the game X-out, (a game i own on c64), which is a punition to load on C64, and indeed, the game data on the band is 20 minutes long (hopefully, the game is great and well polished!).
I’m not misleading anything, I’m reporting what I saw. There is a difference. If he loaded that game incorrectly, I can’t help that!?

Oh and X-Out on the C64 takes 2:25 loading till title, a further 0:55 till ‘reset tape counter’, then 1:05 till shop and lastly 1:00 till level 1. I agree it’s a rather clunky mechanism, but it’s total of 5 minutes 30 seconds to start playing is not that long considering you have an intro as well as a shop in there as well.

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This is something where the CPC is also the winner, you can crunch a program on a PC, ensuring you get the maximum size, and then the CPC decrunch the data very fast once the loading has ended.
This is done on the C64 as well. You have PC based crunchers which crunch very well and fast decompressors on the C64 side. So again, nothing new or Amstrad specific here.

Last edited by roondar; 10 March 2016 at 00:39.
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