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Old 11 September 2015, 07:50   #78
Code Kitten

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 45
Posts: 962
Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
Thanks for your suggestions, but there's really nothing you can say that we haven't already discussed in detail thousands of times over the last decade. We're far more aware of the Amiga and retro gaming community than you seem to assume.
Kittens never assume things about others!

I merely brought out my experience of game/tools development and my feeling about the retro movement but I do not think this was in opposition to anything you said, I feel it should rather be seen as a complement.

Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
I know where all the coders are, I have been helping to pull many of them out of the woodwork over the years through socialising online, promoting current Amiga developments and holding annual game making competitions.
No doubt about that, this is pretty obvious to anyone who has dug a bit in the history of the EAB but I never said or implied otherwise.

What I meant by my rant about code and the years needed to train new kittens is that there are only so many things the current coding (and non coding) kittens can do, new blood, from outside the current community is needed to ramp up production. And also because new genes bring out new ideas and stir the pot to make a better sauce.

My rant about tools was to insist on the importance of gameplay experience over tooling. Code is not everything in a game, gameplay is, and that is clearly something that the community does not master as well as the other arts (code, graphics, sound). Demos and games require very similar coding skills but they require immensely different design skills, and these I think are much less frequent in the current community.

To produce even just two Amiga-era-grade hits per year requires a lot of attempts and thus a lot of people, that's just what I was saying and again I do not think this contradicts anything you said.

Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
We've had discussions and held surveys and monitored what's been produced and sold and we know how much demand there is and how best to serve the current market.
I am certain you guys did a lot of diligent work but as I said in a few posts on this thread already, measuring interest and markets is a science in itself (literally, not figuratively). It is possible to make many measurements and still obtain an incorrect image of a system if you have not taken care to eliminate all sources of bias.

You certainly have many more data points than I do given your past history and activity but the task is gargantuan, especially for small markets where signal and noise are hard to separate. I think a proper market study would require solid economical, statistical and sociological sciences background which I unfortunately do not have.

But I want to underscore that I think your analysis is overall correct and that I applaud your initiative. It is something I though about and I'm glad someone wants to hold this flag for real!

Originally Posted by Cammy
if someone pays for the boxed copy, they will receive a link to the ADF in their email or something
Ok, that is indeed a bit different but that will not prevent competition with "Amiga ROMz" sites: you are still targeting a market of "willing to be generous" people while allowing the "I will not buy if I can" people to get it on ROMz sites. I would still prefer at-cost perpetual exchange and protection and the promise of a DRM free version say 5 years ahead for those who bought it initially.

I do not like the idea of copy protection as a game buyer but I think it is fair to do what is necessary to prevent people who do not want to pay (or wait for price drops) from playing as long as buyers are contractually guaranteed to eventually get a DRM free copy.

But in any case, I would not want you to think I am telling you this is all a bad idea: I and many others here arrived to very similar conclusions as the previous posts of this thread show and I certainly encourage you to proceed!
If I ever finish the game I'm working on (*) I will be happy to rely on your distribution platform if you allow me to opt out of the ADF option.

(*) probably implies me spending less time on EAB and more coding though. ^^;
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