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Old 01 August 2015, 16:57   #155
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meynaf's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lyon (France)
Age: 43
Posts: 1,931
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
well, ok, that is true in many operating systems. although it has to go through the OS to do so, which means it can't bypass file permissions, it can't compromise the kernel. It could compromise a user account, but not the entire system.
Ah, file permissions. Something that has started to make me crazy as well.

- You don't currently have the correct permissions to access the file location.
- But, stupid computer, i am the supervisor and i own you !
- Sorry, you don't have permission.

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
Your idea of each app being in its own sandbox is a good one though, and memory protection would help enforce it (in fact i don't know how you'd do it without).
It can be done with managed code, but the normal memory protection can do it as well. As long as i can bang the metal with asm, it's fine.

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
well you can call common practice stupid if you like... and you may well be right... but i bet you run code that follows common practice quite often.
Alas, yes, i run such code. Is slow and crashes a lot.

But remember that a system that is tolerant to errors, actually favors the existence of said errors.

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
I really don't care what you call it, i look at websites on my PC all the time. This is inviting digital content into my computer. I also run software i didn't write all the time, this could also be considered "guests". Some of it is the Javascript on websites that we now, for whatever reason, don't seem to be able to do without.

Maybe calling them customers confuses the issue, if i was the customer and they were coming into my home to provide me with a service, would that be a better analogy? Well, maybe. I don't have plumbers, builders and all other sorts of tradesmen in my house every single day, but if i did, again, maybe i'd be wise to invest in internal security.

Also there is another reason the analogy fails. In the real world, if someone breaks in, or if a tradesman steals my stuff, i can call the police. That is a sort of internal security that we all have. There is no police on the internet. It is like the wild west.
Well, you wear an armor and i prefer dodging the blow. It's a matter of choice. I don't like the armor because it hinders my moves. You say i'm not protected but i don't care

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
well they made a big mistake installing Windows then...
No. They have something that works right away (especially when it is preinstalled at the time of buying).

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
ok suppose someone trolls you on EAB instead.
Everyone trolls me here already

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
You know there's something very school playground about all this tit-for-tat. "You can't kill me i've got a shield!" "Yeah well i've got a shield-breaking bazooka!"
Maybe, but while you prefer being in a fortress, i prefer open land, even if you consider it as dangerous. It's my right, isn't it ?

Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I think Meynaf's entire argumentation proves the point that programmers should be kept as far away as possible from systems design.
They have been for a few decades, and we can see the result

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Gunnar von Boehn is a hardware designer who advocates Oberon 2 style managed code over MMU based memory protected environments. He is designing the softcore for the Vampire 2 accelerator.
I was right, MMUs aren't exactly the easiest thing to put in a softcore.

I'm not against the idea of managed code, as long as i can still do asm.

Some people like bare metal programming and i want it to be possible.
The machine i want to have is a programmer's dream, not a dumb internet terminal.
Security ? Bah. I surfed the net with my A1200 for more than 15 years and never got hacked. It's about likeliness ; it's less likely to get attacked with such a rare machine than having some attacker pass the numerous defenses on a mainstream machine. So what ?
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