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Old 29 July 2015, 11:44   #77
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
On the Amiga you notice unusual activity quite quickly and can get rid of any virus as quickly. Back in '97 VirusZ took 5 mins to clean up my HD of Ebola 2. In 2006 i got some malware on the peecee at work - took a whole week of blind fight to finally be able to get rid of it (antiviruses saw it, said they removed it, but it was still there).
i got a virus like that on Windows XP once, i'm usually pretty careful with my browsing but somehow the firewall had got turned off... i blame the install program from my internet provider.

Huh, no, nobody can (at least not the miggy).
well we're not talking about "the miggy" we're talking about (or i thought we were) some new system like a sort of raspberry pi/console/htpc that might pull in a few million on Kickstarter.

Anything that gets popular will be a target, if it's got no security people will ruin everything just for fun, i never understood that attitude. Somebody hacked the Mr Beanbag website, don't ask me why.

But, on a console, it's security against what ?
i've already TOLD you!

This occurs as well on so-called secure machines, and guess what ? They get compromised even more.
Windows machines are far more popular, so obviously they are going to be a popular target. And i know Windows security isn't very good. But that's not an argument against the very idea of security.

Here's another problem that plagues even Amiga users, i see complaints about it on this very forum. If a program crashes, it can take out the entire system, because it can just write into memory at random. There's no resource tracking, no memory protection... nobody in their right mind would design a new system where that would happen. This is supposed to be a multitasking platform. One program gets a "null pointer error" or what have you, and you lose all your work in everything else you have open.

And i'm afraid to say you really need to take your head out of the sand. The way people use computers has changed enormously. 30 years ago computers were either, serious business, games for children, or hobbies for geeks. Every time i go on the bus or train these days, everyone around me has their phones out, tapping away, writing messages on facebook or looking at cats. People do their shopping and banking on computers, they store all their family photos and sensitive personal information. You might personally just want to go into a cave and tinker on your own, but computing is mainstream now, and it's social.

You asked me what the sane reasons are for locking down direct hardware access, well i've told you.

Anyway i do kind of wonder what you really mean by the terms "modern" and "PC", maybe by PC you mean "Windows". But at other times not. I don't know.

You DO have direct hardware access on a modern PC, if you want to put the effort in. The operating system obviously has it or it couldn't work. You can write your own operating system if you want. Write a boot loader. I did it once.

The problem with PCs on the hardware side, is that there are so many different possible configurations, hundreds of different chip sets, graphics cards, CPUs even... it would be impossible to program anything with any degree of compatibility without APIs. It's not the security model that hinders you in that respect. The advantage the Amiga has is that its hardware is always more or less the same, you know the location of the registers and what they do... yet still people managed to write games for A500 that didn't work on later models. Also Commodore really didn't want programmers to "bang the hardware" for precisely this reason, and AAA chipset wasn't planned to be backwards compatible with AGA or OCS at that level. You were supposed to use the graphics library.

Whatever way you go about designing a system, a games programmer shouldn't have to worry about compatibility issues. If it works it should just work... this is the case on consoles, a PS3 is a PS3, an XBox 360 is an XBox 360... (well no doubt there are some edge cases but on the whole it's true). Games programmers treated the Amiga like a console, in order to get best results, and i don't blame them, i wouldn't use graphics library either if i cared about performance... but i see no reason whatsoever to go over the system's head when it comes to, for instance, file access. They did that for purposes of copy protection, of course, and back then nobody expected to install games on hard drives anyway.
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