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Old 25 May 2015, 02:56   #147
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Originally Posted by phx View Post
Often it is sufficient to kill these projects when only a single team member becomes inactive. So the risk increases with the number of people involved.
None can argue against the fact that the best person to trust is yourself and yourself alone. So, yes, when you rely on others there is always some risk involved. Past that, what you stated above perhaps holds some truth but it's not always the case:
For a start, the more people you have helping in one department (ex. gfx) the less likely it is for one person's departure to cause too much trouble for the project to be killed. Other members can usually compensate for the loss especially if there's loads of shared work involved.

And -of course- every job has a different weight and importance for the project's continuum. Have you ever seen a project being canceled because the person responsible for sfx has left the team? So, it's not about members -in general- but WHO becomes inactive:

1) The “game designer”, original author of the idea or the person leading the effort. Losing this guy is the most efficient way to kill a project. Especially if the guy is reluctant to pass it on to someone else or holds a key position (ex. he is the lead coder).
2) The lead coder: It's a position that is very difficult to cover if lost. I think most of you know very well how it's like to work on top of someone else's mess (supposed the previous coder was kind enough to left his work behind). You either need a hero for the job or start thinking seriously about re-building the whole thing from scratch. In all cases it's a true disaster... Of course if this person is really the lead coder (that means your team has other people helping in this department) you have slightly better chances to compensate for the loss.
3) The lead gfx artist: Losing him is the less likely reason to kill a project but it remains possible, especially when you're deep into production and the guy simply takes away his work and vanishes (or if he is extremely talented and his work is of an exceptionally high level). Still, another, equally experienced artist can continue, reform, finish or even upgrade the gfx that are left behind. The greatest problem here is to get the artistic style right so that the game won't feel different. That is indeed a great barrier to overcome. But the simpler the gfx are (and the greater the artist's experience), the less likely is for this to become a problem. In any case, a game can always continue being developed using placeholders- until you find the right candidate for the job. Not your prime choice - I know- but at least this is sufficient to keep a project alive.

Originally Posted by phx View Post
As a programmer I must be absolutely sure that I can rely on my team, because I don't want to spend a year of work for nothing. This keeps me away from uncertain "adventures".
Well, this stand true for any other member in the team... who wants to spend a year of hard work for nothing?

Originally Posted by phx View Post
In most cases you have some game graphics looking for a programmer, but that will hardly ever work. Finding a programmer who likes exactly the concept and game type which is shown is quite unlikely.
Perhaps amiga coders are extremely picky and hard to trust?
Ok, joking aside I know everybody holds his preferences. But maybe the hard fact here is that there are few coders in our scene that would be willing to hand the keys of game design to someone else, either for reasons of trust, disbelieve or simple inclination. Wouldn't you agree?
Discarding a project or person who lacks either the expertise, talent or basic knowledge of game design is obviously a no brainer and it's not what I'm talking about...

Originally Posted by phx View Post
It works best when designing the concept first. The programmer thinks about the technical implementation and defines the constraints for the graphics. Then the artists start drawing.
I wouldn't disagree. But if it's the artist that is behind the concept, he needs to present some sort of showcase to attract attention first. Then a programmer could come in, think about the technical implementation and counter suggest any needed constraints. Gfx and concept can then be adapted to those. It's a take and give process that works equally well in reverse or may hit -as well- on the same obstacles (f.e. coder that asks for gfx that are beyond the artist's abilities or a coder's concept that stumbles upon technical issues, but this time from the artist's perspective).

Originally Posted by phx View Post
And even if that would be the case, the graphics are often unusable, because they are drawn without taking the limitation of the hardware in account.
Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
Where are the individuals who can create 2d art natively on the Amiga? It was said several times now that there are more graphicians/musicians out there than coders on the Amiga. Is this really true? I doubt that. Like I wrote in my previous post: things get complicated _nowadays_ when someone hast to draw graphics in a reduced environment. Back in the day people did not have 16,8 million colors. They did not have Ableton live and a plethora of synthesizers in their bedroom. One had a bunch of ST-xx disks and tried to make the best of it.
Common guys! This is an amiga retro forum, not microsoft's backyard!
Most experts that are actively involved in game making here know pretty well how to move a pixel or what it takes to make gfx for amiga... Plus an experienced artist can very well adapt any gfx to the needed specifications even if the original material (or even concept) is way beyond those (no need to get far, just check any of the conversion projects that are on-going). What I get from your answers is about gfx guys that are total newbies or irrelevant to the retro scene... but that's obviously not the people I'm talking about... I'm checking the forum almost everyday for the past year or so and I've seen far too many cases and real talent lurking around... (take this recent post f.e. :
There's one more argument that suggests in favor of what I'm claiming: the recent 'boom' in backbone games: Most of the people involved (or willing to do so) have a nice idea of what it's like to make gfx in a reduced environment (or how to do a bit of game design) but have no coding skills. At the same time it's rare to see a coder looking for gfx (or music) help and not getting any -whatsoever-.

Whether this is the case or not one fact remains: I'm claiming that there are enough gfx/music guys willing to help in our community but maybe not enough (or at least) willing coders, while others here may claim otherwise. Perhaps this is the best proof of why the parties and individuals need to get involved and get to know each other better. Thus the need for a better database or subforum or something similar that will help in this direction. Having EAB altogether with all the buzz, projects and discussion going around is obviously a great place to start! But there's always room for improvement, especially if the goal is to elevate the scene and have more team projects and -eventually- more games of a better quality.

Last edited by Tsak; 25 May 2015 at 17:55.
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