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Old 21 May 2015, 12:47   #126
Apollo
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
That is just not true. I did a lot of things on both platforms and actually coding a (quality) game is MUCH easier on an Amiga than on the c64:
I wouldn't say 'easier', I would prefer saying 'you have more freedom to do things on the amiga'. More on that later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
- CPU ... 6502 1Mhz and 68000 7Mhz is a HUGE difference. It is much easier to code the engine, the AI, etc. on the Amiga than on the C64.
Again, yes, you have more power to do things. You could even try to implement a "bob" engine only with the CPU (not that this makes much sense). My point is: this freedom comes from the higher complexity _and_ the power. I believe for someone coming from an 8-bit platform like C64/Speccy/CPC it can be quite tricky adopting these concepts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
- Scrolling using a big area and with all colours is VERY tricky to do on c64. You can use VSP but then your game won't work on all c64 versions. You can do nice and fast scrolling but limiting yourself to 4 colours. On Amiga it is VERY easy to scroll the bitmaps around and still have a lot of cpu left over to do all the tricks. And when you see what you can do with the copper and compare that to the Vertical Interrupts on the c64 where on some lines you are left with virtually zero cpu time you know what I am talking about.
I am far away of being a C64 guru but I believe I am informed well enough about the 6502, VIC and how to do certain things on this (racing-the-beam stuff, use of illegal opcodes).
But, again, these 'limitations' on the C64 lead to known solutions. If you want to create a sprite multiplexer on the breadbox, I assume you don't have very much options how to solve this. There are more options how to establish a bob/sprite engine on the amiga f.ex. feeding the blitter via cpu vs feeding the blitter via copperlist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
- Blitter will help you immensly and basically make BOBs possible. Almost no c64 game uses the "bob" approach, you have to write a sprite multiplexer and mask the sprites, etc. to come anywhere near what you can much easily do on the amiga.
see above

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
- Memory restrictions. While it is true that the graphics will take more memory on the amiga the actual memory you have for the game engine, precalc tables, AI, etc. is MUCH bigger on the amiga than on the c64.
I agree on this point.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why there are not so many new releases on the Amiga. You have more memory, more possibilities. Once I had the idea making an Amiga game which should not exceed 64KB or 256KB in size, so it could run on a plain A500. Once you limit yourself you're less likely to fall into the "lets make the next big thing" or "lets put this into the project,too" trap. And: the project stays lean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
There are more things of course, but these are the main reasons why game *CODING* is easier on the Amiga than the C64.

However it seems to make quality graphics (and music) is proving next to impossible on the amiga these days. While we get games with graphics which are at least on par with the old days on the c64 (mostly even better) we get really crappy visual experience with new amiga games.
Where are the individuals who can create 2d art natively on the Amiga? It was said several times now that there are more graphicians/musicians out there than coders on the Amiga. Is this really true? I doubt that. Like I wrote in my previous post: things get complicated _nowadays_ when someone hast to draw graphics in a reduced environment. Back in the day people did not have 16,8 million colors. They did not have Ableton live and a plethora of synthesizers in their bedroom. One had a bunch of ST-xx disks and tried to make the best of it.
Please don't get me wrong: it is not about having "superb" graphics or music/sound, as that would imply that I am a superb coder (which I am not). Most of us are hobbyists. But just having usable graphics and sound for the given platform us not that easy as some of you might believe. You can find examples of these problem even here on this board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
That is just not true. I did a lot of things on both platforms and actually coding a (quality) game is MUCH easier on an Amiga than on the c64:

- CPU ... 6502 1Mhz and 68000 7Mhz is a HUGE difference. It is much easier to code the engine, the AI, etc. on the Amiga than on the C64.

- Scrolling using a big area and with all colours is VERY tricky to do on c64. You can use VSP but then your game won't work on all c64 versions. You can do nice and fast scrolling but limiting yourself to 4 colours. On Amiga it is VERY easy to scroll the bitmaps around and still have a lot of cpu left over to do all the tricks. And when you see what you can do with the copper and compare that to the Vertical Interrupts on the c64 where on some lines you are left with virtually zero cpu time you know what I am talking about.

- Blitter will help you immensly and basically make BOBs possible. Almost no c64 game uses the "bob" approach, you have to write a sprite multiplexer and mask the sprites, etc. to come anywhere near what you can much easily do on the amiga.

- Memory restrictions. While it is true that the graphics will take more memory on the amiga the actual memory you have for the game engine, precalc tables, AI, etc. is MUCH bigger on the amiga than on the c64.

There are more things of course, but these are the main reasons why game *CODING* is easier on the Amiga than the C64.

However it seems to make quality graphics (and music) is proving next to impossible on the amiga these days. While we get games with graphics which are at least on par with the old days on the c64 (mostly even better) we get really crappy visual experience with new amiga games.
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