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-   -   First new PC in 10 years - any advice? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=93791)

DDNI 14 August 2018 21:27

First new PC in 10 years - any advice?
 
Hi all,


It’s time for me to upgrade my Core2Quad q6600 PC.
The gfx card is a Radeon HD R9 280. I’m going to reuse this.
I’m not a bleeding edge gamer.
The PC will be used for office, productivity and 1080p video work.

Am I over buying? Is this set up reasonably capable? Any massive oversights?
E.g, is the H60 cooler needed? Is recycling my graphics card a mistake?
Should I go for a prebuilt system?

Thanks in advance

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor (£144.97 @ Box Limited)
Motherboard: MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard (£99.89 @ More Computers)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£154.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£83.94 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£52.97 @ Amazon UK)
Case: NZXT - S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case (£65.70 @ Kustom PCs)
Power Supply: EVGA - 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£62.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Monitor: Asus - VG248QE 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor (£206.41 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £871.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-08-14 20:59 BST+0100

gimbal 15 August 2018 16:10

977 euros, seems reasonable. I paid double that for my gaming rig. Desktops just aren't cheap nowadays.

1time 15 August 2018 19:04

Omg! Your computer cant even play a 4k video!! You have to update more regulary!

DDNI 15 August 2018 20:10

:) :)
Current pc struggles with 1080p :(

Keep going to make the purchase, but then stopping. £830 quid is a big lump of cash...
I think I’ll stick with the q6600 for a few more years.

gimbal 15 August 2018 22:40

Its likely only going to become more expensive as time passes and laptops and cloud services replace powerhouse desktop computers more and more.

I'm not even sure if I'm ever going to buy a gaming rig again with cloud gaming becoming a thing. A simple thin client or laptop might already be enough in the future. Like this:

https://www.parsecgaming.com/cloud-gaming

Might be something for you too for your video editing needs.

Daedalus 16 August 2018 10:05

High end desktops were never cheap - once you get to the sharp end of the curve, prices always rose dramatically. I remember a friend paying £2,500 for a Pentium 3 550MHz machine. It had incredible hardware for the time including a hardware MPEG-II decoder, but was right at the very bleeding edge of what was available. With inflation, that will probably be around £4,000 these days. It's the cheap end of the range that has somewhat disappeared and been replaced by laptops and tablets/phones.

nobody 16 August 2018 11:35

1.000€ to play 1080p videos? lol, just stay with the previous setup. I have a Quad core AMD laptop, 6gb RAM with middle to high end (back then) video card, I bought 700€ in end of 2013 and still works perfectly for 1080p and games, If you don't play very demanding 3D games. That was marketed as a budget gaming laptop.

gimbal 16 August 2018 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobody (Post 1261505)
1.000€ to play 1080p videos?

Its not really specified, but I interpret "video work" to be something more than just playing them.

DDNI 16 August 2018 18:37

Yes, video work means editing and encoding 1080p video. The q6600 is very slow in this regard.

amilo3438 16 August 2018 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI (Post 1261163)
Hi all,

It’s time for me to upgrade my Core2Quad q6600 PC.
The gfx card is a Radeon HD R9 280. I’m going to reuse this.
I’m not a bleeding edge gamer.
The PC will be used for office, productivity and 1080p video work.

Hi,

I was in similar situation a few months ago... my old laptop got broken and I was in planning to buy a new PC.

Luckily, I have friend who told me that his company getting rid off some old desktop PC and if I was interested - I could choose between business desktop PCs: HP dc7800s or Lenovo M57s - both SFF format.
Because of really funny small price (30 Euro for both) I decided to have both.

Well, which one is better... HP dc7800 comes with Q35 chipset and Lenovo M57 with G31 chipset... both have integrated GMA 3100 GFX but HP have much more RAM space to max 8GB and nice feature in bios setting to set speed of the CPU fun from 1 to 9 for efficient CPU cooling if needed.

Lenovo M57 could only extend to 4GB RAM max but his G31 chipset give me opportunity to update it to Xeon 5450 CPU (4core @3GHz CPU) what unfortunately is not compatible with HP dc7800 Q35 chipset, so for the HP PC I had to choose Q6600 CPU (G0 version), but it was very easy to made bsel mod (small tape over one CPU pin) to make it work from 2.4GHz on 3Ghz and speed it up for some 25% with CPU fun in bios set to only 2nd value, what is a little louder than on 1 setting but CPU works in idle on 30 and on max power below 65 degrees centigrade.

Because of really not usable integrated GMA 3100 GFX I upgrade both with dedicated GFX... Lenovo with GT710 and HP with GTX1030 which I get also as used for reasonable price.

I also must admit that probably for today standards even max upgraded old PCs as mine can look to someone pretty outdated... but all depends for what you use your PCs... I found that both still satisfy my needs - one as low budget gaming PC and other as pretty capable multimedia PC - have no problem to run 1080 yt-video after some adjustments as both dedicated GFX support video acceleration that reduces CPU usage a lot. (from 100% to 25%)

That was my story... hope it was not too boring.
(sorry for grammar mistakes, because I doing this in a hurry)

Cheers!

PS. So I’ll too stick with the old PCs for a few more years. (you are not the only one)

SquawkBox 17 August 2018 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI (Post 1261566)
The q6600 is very slow in this regard.

Then you should give a second thought as to whether doing the upgrade is worth it or not. Or, if you cannot afford not to delay further,
there is still a chance, although it probably won't bring a huge boost, but still : First, is your mobo ready for the 45 nm Yorkfield range of Quads ?
If that is so, you could get a q9550, E0 stepping (or q9650, if you're lucky enough) to replace your (admittedly) aging q6600.
Then, if you're feeling adventurous (and ensure proper cooling), these little beasts can take 3,4 - 3,6 GHz through overclocking no sweat.

gimbal 17 August 2018 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daedalus (Post 1261488)
High end desktops were never cheap

Definitely not but there was a noticeable dip for a couple of years, basically when dual cores were the latest thing and desktops/towers were in higher demand. That dip is long gone.

amilo3438 17 August 2018 16:36

In addition to my post earlier...

So how much this upgraded 2 old business PCs costs a few months ago:


HP dc7800 (upgraded)
-----------------------------------------------------
15 - PC: (used -> from local business company)
20 - RAM: 8GB = 4x2GB DDR2 800MHz (low profile new -> from aliexpress)
10 - CPU: Q6600 (G0) (used -> from aliexpress)
60 - GFX: Asus GT1030 2GB RAM DDR5 w/passive cooling (used low profile gfx -> friend upgraded his PC to GTX1050)
-----------------------------------------------------
=105 euro total (or 45 euro w/o gfx card)


Lenovo M57 (upgraded)
-----------------------------------------------------
15 - PC: (used -> from local business company)
10 - RAM: 4GB = 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz (low profile new -> aliexpress)
20 - CPU: E5450 (C0) modded Xeon 771 to 755 (used -> aliexpress)
30 - GFX: Gigabyte GT710 1GB RAM DDR3 w/active cooling (used low profile gfx -> local computer shop)
-----------------------------------------------------
=75 euro total (or 45 euro w/o gfx card)


Total cost for both PCs =180 euro w/gfx cards or 90 euro w/o gfx cards.


Note:
The initial prise for one business PC was 20 euro, but manage to get it for 15 euro each because of buying 2 PCs and both w/o 1GB RAM that I would anyway replace with better. Also, if I was buying used CPUs and RAMs from local computer shop it would cost me double, so I went to aliexpress.

As you can notice on above prises, if I could live with integrated GMA 3100, what is good enough for usual business tasks, I could go much cheaper. But i really needed the gfx becouse integrated GMA 3100 do not support any HD 1080p video acceleration and computer somehow feels much responsive with installed dedicated gfx cards than without. Fortunately both cards are low profile and supports DirectX11 or DirectX12 and doesnt use to much power: GT710 is 19W and GTX1030 is 30W TDP.

Of course, in HP I could put an Q9550 CPU (25 euro on aliexpress) but the diff to Q6600 (with bsel mod applied) was not enough to justify the price differnce. Anyway, theese business PCs are not possible to overclock from the bios = not supported.

Note that modded 771 to 755 Xeon E5450 installed in Lenovo M57 is practically the same to Q9650 (40 euro on aliexpress) but with half the price. Also, the E5450 is 80W and the Q9650 is 95W TDP. Unfortunately the Q35 chipset in the HP dc7800 do not support it so I went with Q6600 (G0) 95W TDP CPU. Fortunatelly it was possible to apply the bsel mod to it, i.e. the 266MHz FSB was increased to 333Mhz FSB by tape mod.

Regarding the Cinebench 15 tests, the diff between Q6600 oc/3GHz to E5450 3GHz in the CPU test is: Q6600 scored with 300 where E5450 scored with 330,
while in the OpenGL test: HP dc7800 w/GT1030 scored 54 FPS where Lenovo M57 w/GT710 scored 35 FPS (or 44 FPS if oc the gfx card).
So according to above the E5450 would score 59 FPS w/GT1030 in OpenGL test where Q6600 scored 54 FPS = the diff is 5 FPS. Unfortunately, the GT1030 takes 2 slots and is a little longer to install it Lenovo M57, but in HP dc7800 that was not the problem as it contain much more space inside the case.

In the video editing the E5450 would be probably better because of 12MB CPU cache vs 8MB CPU cache in Q6600 and because it has SSE4.1 CPU instructions where this instructions is missing in the Q6600.

In gaming, the diff between GT1030 and GT710 is pretty noticeable, specially in higher resoultions. On 1080p the GT1030 is preatty usable with lower
gfx settings and in 720p it is "eating" on higher settings. On the other side, the GT710 is not a gaming card, but works very well in low resoultions as 1024x768 or a little higher as 1280x1024 for 10yrs or more older games. Also with same resolution as f.e. 1024x768, the feeling of lag with GT710 is a little bit more noticeable where with GT1030 this feeling does not exist. Yeah, the GT710 is not the gfx card for gaming, but could be used for older games in low resolutions and for HD 1080p video acceleration w/o problem.

So what is the difference between old computers and new ones? I guess it is mainly in a "little" much higher CPU/Gfx/RAM/HD speed in new computers that is also usually needed to run todays high resolution monitors at high FPS speeds, but the old PCs are still pretty capable to do the same only if you can live with low resolution monitors and be patient to wait a "little" bit longer for tasks to finish like: video editing, calculations or similar tasks.

Does this justify the prise diff. between old and new? I would say: if you can afford it or you need it for your business go with a new one, but if not, why to invest into something that is 10x (or more) expensive if you will anyway not use it to max capacity (read to justify it)!

Anyway, I guess new computers bought today will probably be also very soon outdated as it seems that technology runs pretty fast theese days.

Cheers!

Retro1234 17 August 2018 17:09

There doesn't seem to be a big saving in building your own PC, to buying a pre built one like there use to be.

Thorham 18 August 2018 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438 (Post 1261878)
Anyway, I guess new computers bought today will probably be also very soon outdated as it seems that technology runs pretty fast theese days.

Actually, it's probably better now than it used to be. It seems progress has been slowing down, not speeding up. When was the last time we saw a major increase in CPU core speed, for example?

Even my six year old low end AMD A4 3400 with AMD 6450 with 8GB of RAM still isn't useless.

amilo3438 18 August 2018 09:24

Yes, that is why the 10yrs "old" desktop is still pretty usable today, but regarding technology progress I meen about mobile, smaller, lighter. People today dont want to be connected at one place, one desk, they want to be mobile. And that technology will be probably very soon able to put desktop computers outdated.

daxb 18 August 2018 14:27

Maybe someday people will recognise that it isn't a good idea to have mobile devices all the day in use. I like to have only one place where access is possible because it is more stressless. Unfortunately, I haven't an advice for the topic. Only low power consumption/price is nice. :)

Thorham 18 August 2018 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by amilo3438 (Post 1262046)
Yes, that is why the 10yrs "old" desktop is still pretty usable today, but regarding technology progress I meen about mobile, smaller, lighter. People today dont want to be connected at one place, one desk, they want to be mobile. And that technology will be probably very soon able to put desktop computers outdated.

Probably won't happen, because plenty of people require workstations for doing their job.

Anubis 18 August 2018 19:30

I was planning after moving into new house to build new gaming rig, but end up getting broken good laptop with dedicated 2GB video card (NVIDIA GForce 940M) + Intel video card, SSD card, 8GB ram and i7 processor for free. Removed broken scree, using HDMI to connect to 27" monitor - in short, it is working very well for price. :)

No need to get anything new now, except perhaps video card for my other box that I also got for free. (with i5 processor and 8GB memory)

Thorham 18 August 2018 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis (Post 1262193)
I was planning after moving into new house to build new gaming rig, but end up getting broken good laptop with dedicated 2GB video card (NVIDIA GForce 940M) + Intel video card, SSD card, 8GB ram and i7 processor for free. Removed broken scree, using HDMI to connect to 27" monitor - in short, it is working very well for price. :)

No need to get anything new now, except perhaps video card for my other box that I also got for free. (with i5 processor and 8GB memory)

Lucky bastard :crying


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