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-   -   Looking forward to the Vampire 4? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=96000)

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 17:25

Erm, this thread got derailed pretty quickly.

I’m looking forward to getting the V4, being able to mod a case for it and have a nice, powerful Amiga I can take around with me. :)

I hope others will support this great team as well.

ShK 24 January 2019 17:30

How nice it would be, unfortunately it is not possible to use WinUAE for dev. Even RTG driver uses AMMX nowadays and Pamela has 8ch, etc. I think this Windows discussion is done now.

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1299899)
The comparisons are clear, the tests prove it, WinUAE is much faster and performer and has a very high compatibility with all the ChipSets, Vampire currently does not meet these requirements, maybe he will have them in the future. :confused
With the Vampire try to run Games and Demo AGA both HD version and WHDLoad and you'll see the compatibility percentage, then try to run heavy games like Quake 2 and Quake 3 and then we'll talk. :)

Try doing this with the Vampire (same quality and speed):

WinuUAE AfA-OS https://youtu.be/tgEHQCy4GM4

WinuUAE Quake3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6ugseDJ9g

WinuUAE Quake2: https://youtu.be/DIqyNYe2eb8

I dunno, the frame rate on quake looks pretty bleak. The other elements do look good though.

Here’s quake and quake 2 on the vampire: https://youtu.be/ipU1SFvQgZQ

Also, quake 2 on an A600 with a vampire 2 running quake: https://youtu.be/CcoDkeW3g1c

This one is great. It’s an A500 with vampire 2 running Max OS and then playing dark forces at an awesome frame rate:https://youtu.be/qkXPmUXC2Pg

I’d say the frame rate was better on the vampire version.

AMIGASYSTEM 24 January 2019 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshieinnz (Post 1300031)
Also, quake 2 on an A600 with a vampire 2 running quake

You missed a detail, on the Vampire there is a low resolution grainy, in my video Quake 2 has a resolution 1024x768 (you can go further) with the maximum detail, look at it well

Quote:

This one is great. It’s an A500 with vampire 2 running Max OS and then playing dark forces at an awesome frame rate
Do not touch this button because on WinUAE and OS3.9, MacOS 8.x runs much faster same thing for PC emulation, see video:
https://youtu.be/Ga1_wfsl4rg

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300039)
You missed a detail, on the Vampire there is a low resolution grainy, in my video Quake 2 has a resolution 1024x768 (you can go further) with the maximum detail, look at it well



Do not touch this button because on WinUAE and OS3.9, MacOS 8.x runs much faster same thing for PC emulation, see video:
https://youtu.be/Ga1_wfsl4rg


The A600 may be grainy but its fast and playable. The Quake 3 video you posted was not playable at all. Also, the problem with software emulation is that it does bug out more often.

Also, what spec was the PC to begin with? If it's a $1k+ machine, then it's really a different aspect entirely.

Look, I don't want to get into a heated discussion here. My original post wasn't to bash WinUAE at all; I use it pretty much every day, but I came to chat about the Vampire 4. I'm looking forward to getting one and looking forward to using it.

One other thing though. You mentioned the performance for the Vampire wasn't up to speed with WinUAE. I'm talking about the Vampire 4 here. That's going to be pretty decent.

AMIGASYSTEM 24 January 2019 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshieinnz (Post 1300042)
The A600 may be grainy but its fast and playable. The Quake 3 video you posted was not playable at all. Also, the problem with software emulation is that it does bug out more often.

Quake 3 is just a first test of an engine that I think should still improve, and I do not think it can turn that way on the vampire.

Quote:

Also, what spec was the PC to begin with? If it's a $1k+ machine, then it's really a different aspect entirely.
In my videos I use an old Dual-Core PC with Win7 32Bit 4GB RAM (see details screenshot), imagine what can be done with an i7 64GB :agree

On the Vampire you try to play more Mp3 at the same time (16 Bit HiFi) + Effects Video WinAmp: https://youtu.be/NTw0foqwpQA

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300052)
Quake 3 is just a first test of an engine that I think should still improve, and I do not think it can turn that way on the vampire.


In my videos I use an old Dual-Core PC with Win7 32Bit 4GB RAM (see details screenshot), imagine what can be done with an i7 64GB :agree

On the Vampire you try to play more Mp3 at the same time (16 Bit HiFi) + Effects Video WinAmp: https://youtu.be/NTw0foqwpQA

Yeah, an i7 with 64Gigs would be sweet :) Not too great of a price though lol.

Also, I don't have a vampire or vampire 2. However, i'm sure they could handle MP3 usage OK. here's a basic one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFYRdZETCgA

Here's a really good video showing an A600 with vampire 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEjtc6JWlsk WHat's awesome about this is that he's loading multiple copies of personal paint while the MP3 is playing in the background with no stutter. Then he also loads up a word processor and there's no stutter. Pretty decent if you ask me,

This is a really good video and shows the capabilities of it. However, i'm not talking about V2, i'm looking forward to V4 which should be a beast.

Gorf 24 January 2019 19:10

Quote:

In my videos I use an old Dual-Core PC with Win7 32Bit 4GB RAM (see details screenshot), imagine what can be done with an i7 64GB
64GB would not improve things for WinUEA or AmigaOS, both can not make use of it. Same goes for more than two cores.

WinUAE ist really good, but like some others, I do not have (and do not want) MS Windows....
I am quite fond of Amiberry and I like to have a dedicated machines for my Amiga stuff.
I guess the V4 will be faster than all my setups now, including my A3000/60.

We will see ... what I really would love to see is a Apollo/Vampire ASIC with around 1GHz :D

AMIGASYSTEM 24 January 2019 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorf (Post 1300059)
64GB would not improve things for WinUEA or AmigaOS, both can not make use of it. Same goes for more than two cores.

WinUAE ist really good, but like some others, I do not have (and do not want) MS Windows....
I am quite fond of Amiberry and I like to have a dedicated machines for my Amiga stuff.
I guess the V4 will be faster than all my setups now, including my A3000/60.

We will see ... what I really would love to see is a Apollo/Vampire ASIC with around 1GHz :D

Dual-Core WinUAE Emulation OS4.1
https://youtu.be/sI32LN2Du3g

My friend PC most recent WinUAE Emulation OS4.1
https://youtu.be/pr5GkN6_5gU

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300064)
Dual-Core WinUAE Emulation OS4.1
https://youtu.be/sI32LN2Du3g

My friend PC most recent WinUAE Emulation OS4.1
https://youtu.be/pr5GkN6_5gU

I'm not sure what you're getting at now, I must admit. We all admit that WinUAE is great and we're not disputing it. However, this post was about the Vampire 4.

Once that is out, let's compare performance at that point. Until then, there's no need really.

Gorf 24 January 2019 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300064)
Dual-Core WinUAE Emulation OS4.1

Yes two cores - more is useless, as I wrote.

AMIGASYSTEM 24 January 2019 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshieinnz (Post 1300065)
I'm not sure what you're getting at now, I must admit. We all admit that WinUAE is great and we're not disputing it. However, this post was about the Vampire 4.

Once that is out, let's compare performance at that point. Until then, there's no need really.

OK I will wait for your info after you have purchased the Vampire 4 and I hope you can deny what I said

AMIGASYSTEM 24 January 2019 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorf (Post 1300069)
Yes two cores - more is useless, as I wrote.

I hope i can intervene a more competent and qualified person like Toni Wilen to clear this topic.

Gorf 24 January 2019 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300080)
I hope i can intervene a more competent and qualified person like Toni Wilen to clear this topic.

So I am incompetent and not qualified ... thanx
But Toni said so himself:

"What about support for the multi-core x86?

Very difficult. For compatible modes (like A500), practically impossible, if you want any performance gains. Chips in Amiga "talk" to each other continuously, you can't have a separate thread for chips, because continuous inter-chip messaging would kill the performance.

Some "post"-processing parts could be moved to other threads, but it isn't easy, at least if you don't want to lose performance on single core CPUs... (not interested, not worth the trouble, at least I won't waste my time for free). Also, in theory, JIT CPU emulation could be moved to a separate thread, but again, I am not interested in possible performance gains (in worst case, the result is slower performance if there is too much messaging between threads...)."

http://obligement.free.fr/articles_t...wwillen_en.php

Welshieinnz 24 January 2019 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300078)
OK I will wait for your info after you have purchased the Vampire 4 and I hope you can deny what I said

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not trying to one-up on anyone/anything. I'm not trying to belittle WinUAE but you keep coming back with comments that suggest I am.

The idea of this thread was simply to see who is excited for a new product, not to bash others.

Englyst 25 January 2019 02:01

I for one am excited about the Vampire 4. This weekend I'm getting the Vampire 500+ v2 for my A2000, but surely for a small, powerful Amiga demoparty and fun machine, the V4 would be awesome. Looking forward to trying the 'little brother' next week.

I know a few old Amiga people in my circle of friends that are looking forward to the V4 as well. Let's see how it goes. And as with the FPGA, I like that they can fix hardware bugs and add stuff to it without us having to buy new hardware.

I do have WinUAE (AmiKit X and FlowerPot) but again it just doesn't feel right to me :) I do run OS 4.1 FE on it just for fun though. Used to have an AmigaOne but sold it as it was unstable as hell.

I see no reason to bash eachother for what we use individually - it's a personal choice and I respect that. I just like to be positive about the fact that there's still life in the Amiga retro community with many new products being introduced - ~27 years after Commodore went under.

I'm quite amazed at the fact that some people spend long hours creating hardware and software that will benefit a lot of us. My hat off to you all! :)

AMIGASYSTEM 25 January 2019 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Englyst (Post 1300168)
I do have WinUAE (AmiKit X and FlowerPot) but again it just doesn't feel right to me :) :)

Vampire 4 (any OS you will use) it will not be different from WinUAE + AmiKit X, only difference, less powerful, less compatible and without AfA-OS support if the FPU will not be optimal. :)

Welshieinnz 25 January 2019 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM (Post 1300169)
Vampire 4 (any OS you will use) it will not be different from WinUAE + AmiKit X, only difference, less powerful, less compatible and without AfA-OS support if the FPU will not be optimal. :)

Dude, seriously. Enough.

Welshieinnz 25 January 2019 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Englyst (Post 1300168)
I for one am excited about the Vampire 4. This weekend I'm getting the Vampire 500+ v2 for my A2000, but surely for a small, powerful Amiga demoparty and fun machine, the V4 would be awesome. Looking forward to trying the 'little brother' next week.

I know a few old Amiga people in my circle of friends that are looking forward to the V4 as well. Let's see how it goes. And as with the FPGA, I like that they can fix hardware bugs and add stuff to it without us having to buy new hardware.

I do have WinUAE (AmiKit X and FlowerPot) but again it just doesn't feel right to me :) I do run OS 4.1 FE on it just for fun though. Used to have an AmigaOne but sold it as it was unstable as hell.

I see no reason to bash eachother for what we use individually - it's a personal choice and I respect that. I just like to be positive about the fact that there's still life in the Amiga retro community with many new products being introduced - ~27 years after Commodore went under.

I'm quite amazed at the fact that some people spend long hours creating hardware and software that will benefit a lot of us. My hat off to you all! :)

Ooo. Let us know how it goes with the V2 setup!

I agree, I think its amazing that people are still developing for the Amiga scene. What’s also amazing is that the videos online regularly get thousands of views.

amiwolf 25 January 2019 06:12

Upon release, AGA machines were rare and expensive in these parts and remain so to this day. The Gold 3 core is what I've been waiting for, as has the standalone in a way. The V2.x is already bumping into the limits of its Cyclone III so I think the V4 will be a wiser choice long term. As the owner of a somewhat rickety A600, the Vampire V4 standalone will be a worthy replacement.


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