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-   -   Given the recent Scanlines discussions... (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28838)

DamienD 28 March 2007 21:44

Given the recent Scanlines discussions...
 
Hey Toni,

Concerning scanlines, noticed that you've implemented the brightness/intesity slider for the D3D output, but not for Direct Draw...

Is it easy enough / possible to do this for Direct Draw as well?

Toni Wilen 28 March 2007 21:50

Possible: of course. Worth the trouble? I don't know...

D3D/OGL does the transparency automatically. DD needs totally different and more complex method.

(and I hate scan lines :D)

BippyM 28 March 2007 21:51

quick Toni go vote :p

DamienD 28 March 2007 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
Possible: of course. Worth the trouble? I don't know...

D3D/OGL does the transparency automatically. DD needs totally different and more complex method.

Fair enough ;)

It works very well in Gens32, just thought I'd ask...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
(and I hate scan lines :D)

:crying

Retro-Nerd 28 March 2007 22:01

But how about a gamma/brightness slider for the whole image output under DD?

Edit:

Next thing to do: Using my Crane technics on this lousy Duck hunter.

Anubis 29 March 2007 13:27

It is much easier just to remove scanline option. :D

Ultron 31 March 2007 00:37

What about RGB triads? :help

DamienD 31 March 2007 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron
What about RGB triads? :help

Agreed Ultron, the more graphic filter options for the user the better ;)

Personally 25% scanlines like in PC Engine or the TV effect in SNESx9 would be nice, but I also think RGB triads would be cool :bowdown

...but I'm say this from a user's perspective. Not really sure how easy / hard it would actually be to implement???

Toni's the boss at the end of the day his discussion is *final*... I respect his comments :great

DamienD 31 March 2007 00:51

You know, maybe we should ask a MOD to change the title of this thread to something like "Graphics filter options / effects that you think would be appreciated in future versions of WinUAE" or something like that ;)

Toni Wilen 31 March 2007 01:12

I don't care how other programs do it or about screenshots. I care about:

1) URL to C source that is clear enough and compatible with WinUAE's way of doing things.
2) It must be GPL compatible (MAME/MESS is not)
3) I do not care about Your opinion about scanlines. The more I read about it the more annoyed I get about them :)

Global color adjustments: (brighness, gamma, whatever) Only possible without slowdown in non-AGA modes. OCS/ECS colors use 4096 entry color palette that can be adjusted easily, AGA is direct RGB. 16M color palette would be pointless :D

Perhaps via some indirect way it is possible. DirectDraw/D3D/whatever may have way to do it "globally".

Ultron 31 March 2007 01:14

The funny thing is if i'm not wrong since the GFX on MAME got an overhaul some time ago as far as RGB triads go, they just overlay a RGB triad pattern over the image. That's it. A PNG with an alphamap.

Edit: Yep, i checked it, in MAME artwork directory they store the PNG with an alphamap, it's a pattern, and they tile it on the screen overlaying it. That's pretty much it - That's even how they do regular scanlines.

DamienD 31 March 2007 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
3) I do not care about Your opinion about scanlines. The more I read about it the more annoyed I get about them :)

That's a bit harsh my friend. I would definitely be willing to compensate more donation money your way for your efforts if you are willing to investigate further (even though it may be useless in the end given the reasons you've explained and I know money is what the reason why you do the great things that you do) :bowdown :bowdown :bowdown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
Perhaps via some indirect way it is possible. DirectDraw/D3D/whatever may have way to do it "globally".

That would be awesome if you wouldn't mind. I know you are an extremely busy man and other "more important" things related to Amiga compatibility take priority... ;)

At the end of the day, I'm just happy that we have somebody like you who is charge of this great emulator and who's also always on hand to answer all questions in a rational / easy-to-understand manner for different levels of all reading ;)

Ironclaw 31 March 2007 01:50

I read in the Bible that the use for scanlines are for transvestites..... I'm not kidding!!

:D

Retro-Nerd 31 March 2007 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironclaw
I read in the Bible that the use for scanlines are for transvestites..... I'm not kidding!!

:D

And that's from a guy whose avatar looks through a scanline. :p

viddi 31 March 2007 09:56

Well, DamienD now I´m here to tell everyone:

Yes, I´m a scanliner and I´d really appreciate a brightness slider for WinUAE.
Toni, take heart and glory will be yours :bowdown

F1ReB4LL 01 April 2007 13:42

What's about the blargg's NTSC filter? http://www.slack.net/~ant/

Toni Wilen 11 April 2007 20:29

Vice C64 "PAL" filter? GPL, seems to be easy to merge, looks "good", not sure if it is fast enough for hires.. (always problem with filters that are designed for 320x200 max resolutions)

F1ReB4LL 14 April 2007 00:32

NTSC filter is better, it simulates the color and the distortions caused by the cable.

Toni Wilen 14 April 2007 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1ReB4LL
NTSC filter is better, it simulates the color and the distortions caused by the cable.

2 problems, 1: I don't want NTSC, it must be PAL. 2: it has color bit depth limitations (and most likely size limits).

rsn8887 14 April 2007 06:43

This is just my opinion so please feel free to skip this, since no real info is in this post... ok:

I never saw and still don't see the point of scanlines.
I _always_ turn them off.

I can see the benefit of pal emulation for c64 and green monitor emulation for cpc, to give people the original experience to match their memories. I can see this since by far the majority of people had those machines hooked up to tv/green monitor back in the day.

But didn't we all have the amiga hooked up to a monitor anyways?
And don't the amiga gfx look even better on modern screens? Pixel art only benefits from clear distinction between pixels IMO.

So why scanlines, or why other filters that just add extra blurryness or distortion to the gfx?

I guess if you had your amiga hooked up to tv in the past, you might want pal/ntsc emulation (rather complex algorithm I would think). But honestly, if you had an amiga hooked up to a tv, you were just missing out by having insanely crappy picture in the first place...


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