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-   -   TF534 and Buddha ide (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98557)

Madk71 22 August 2019 15:02

TF534 and Buddha ide
 
Hi all. I bought a TF534 because it seems work (at the beginning) and the decent price plus the FPU gave me the illusion to be able finally to have an accelerator for my A2000. Unfortunately the TF534 comes with only 4MB, so to have enough memory to use some music software and some video converter software, I added my beloved GVP HC8 with 8MB.
The Tf534 having a non DMA friendly memory slow down the GVP from 2.2MB/s to 1.1MB/s and its IDE is absolutely unreliable (a lot od read write error whit long use).
SO I decided to buy Buddha ide (last model and formware), But as musch I have tryed, I failed to make it work eves only as interface for a CDrom. The Buddha works fine if I use it in my A2000 with the 68K, so I can't annoy Icomp for a problem that is not their fault. On the other and Mr. Stephen Leary, told that he is no longher interrested on spend time on this accelerator, but I asked for a last little support like a way to turn off the ide on the TF. As answer I received the courtesy to see all my posts deleted and my account banned from the www.exxoshost.co.uk forum (he deleted the messages of all the people asking for support after page 5).
So, If anybody have any idea on how to make it works, it will be very appreciated.
Kind regards

dalek 22 August 2019 15:45

As you say the TF534 is no longer supported (and was reluctantly released) so you'll have to be happy with best effort advice from the community. If you were banned I guess there would be a reason. Anyhoo...

I have found with the TF534, that an SD2IDE adapter and SD card works better than a CF card - this is different to my experience with all other TF cards where the CF cards are fine (YMMV). No reason found for this as yet, other than the TF534 card was the first to do away with the requirement for the INT2 header to be connected to the mainboard for the IDE. You could try connecting it (as I understand it, if that signal is connected the firmware will use the old method of not trying to man-in-the middle the interrupt). But I haven't tried this myself.

1.1MB/s should be fine for everything you really want to do with 8MB ZII and 4MB ZIII RAM. I wouldn't get hung up on throughput for such a system.

How do you know the Buddha isn't an issue? Several other forum threads show stability and issues with the latest Buddha IDE.

Why disable the TF IDE? Surely it's enough to just remove any attached devices? It won't conflict with a ZII expansion.

Lastly, I suggest if you have issues take it up with the person you bought it from. If you made it yourself, you'd probably have a good enough idea how to braindead out the IDE in the firmware if that's really what you want to go ahead with.

EDIT: also make sure you are using as short as possible 2-3cm IDE cable on the TF534 IDE connector (which is unbuffered, like the A600/1200).

Madk71 22 August 2019 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
As you say the TF534 is no longer supported (and was reluctantly released) so you'll have to be happy with best effort advice from the community. If you were banned I guess there would be a reason. Anyhoo...

Which advice, the community didn't give me anything. And stopping to care about this card a few steps from become a good card, is a shame (in my opinion).Be banned only because I sayd, in a respectful manner, that people like me have spend money for this card and it is a shame that we can't be able to use it. I also sayd that I know that it is a DIY project and Mr Leary don't make any money from this, and I really respect that, but just a small help was all I (and some other people) asked for. He is the creator of the TF, how long it take to him to modify a simple thing ... 10 minutes (for him)? All his fans don't deserve 10 min of his time? This don't seems to me a good reasons to do what he have done. To cancel all the posts where bugs were reported and ban me, is not what I expect from a person of that level of culture and knowledge, but he seems very incline to that behavior, even on this forum.But anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
I have found with the TF534, that an SD2IDE adapter and SD card works better than a CF card - this is different to my experience with all other TF cards where the CF cards are fine (YMMV). No reason found for this as yet, other than the TF534 card was the first to do away with the requirement for the INT2 header to be connected to the mainboard for the IDE. You could try connecting it (as I understand it, if that signal is connected the firmware will use the old method of not trying to man-in-the middle the interrupt). But I haven't tried this myself.

Yes I am currently using it with and sd2ide, that gave me better results, even faster, but loading a lot of files or opening draws with a lot of files in it, lead very often with errors, I used all the filesystem around, included FFS (I am using OS3.1.4 and KS 3.1.4), but alwais the same. On the other hand no problem at all with the GVP. Unfortunately at 1.1MB/s, handling big amount of files is a pain.
On his form (I have to check again) someware he suggest to avoid to attach INT2 for the TF534.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
1.1MB/s should be fine for everything you really want to do with 8MB ZII and 4MB ZIII RAM. I wouldn't get hung up on throughput for such a system.

Comapred to the 2.2MB/s that I got before, you can feel the difference especially with music software or using ADpro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
How do you know the Buddha isn't an issue? Several other forum threads show stability and issues with the latest Buddha IDE.

Because if I unplug the TF and I use the 68K, The Buddha works. It is not a very fast, but it works wery well.
And I tested the Buddha in my friends's A2000 that can afford a GVP 030 50MHz, and zero problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
Why disable the TF IDE? Surely it's enough to just remove any attached devices? It won't conflict with a ZII expansion.

Because Is the last test that I can't do. I tryed without the sd2ide and without even the GVP. The TF took ages to start the boot (from gotek)and I can see only the secondary IDE of the Buddha, but I can't use it anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
Lastly, I suggest if you have issues take it up with the person you bought it from. If you made it yourself, you'd probably have a good enough idea how to braindead out the IDE in the firmware if that's really what you want to go ahead with.

The person that sold me this card helped me a LOT to sort all the problems with the TF but he can't help me with the firmware and I surely am, less capable of him on that. I wish to be albe of a great things like that, but I know my limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek (Post 1340675)
EDIT: also make sure you are using as short as possible 2-3cm IDE cable on the TF534 IDE connector (which is unbuffered, like the A600/1200).

Yes I found a 2,5 cm cable on ebay.

Please, consider that English is not my main lenguage (I suppose you already spotted that), so if someting can sound not very good or can touch some feelings, I apologize in advance, I am here only to find help, not to insult anybody. It is a bad thing when someone don't give you the chance to explain yourself and eventually apologize, if for any reasons(poor grammar is one of that) a bad expression was made.

Thank you for your answer
Kind regards

EzdineG 22 August 2019 18:06

TF534 and Buddha ide
 
Hi, it is a shame how some of these things go. I understand and empathize with your situation, as they could have been handled much better.

If you are capable of minimal soldering, this is what I’d recommend.

1. Desolder either the TF534 or IDE2SD connector and solder in the opposite of the other’s connector so they can be plugged directly in to each other. This will give you the shortest possible IDE link, and you can then extend the SD card as far as you’d like since they’re typically buffered.

2. Install the latest muLibs onto your 3.1.4.1 updated system. This will dramatically increase the TF IDE speed (I’ve seen as high as 5MB). Yes, this will eat RAM, but you will install more in the Z2 space later.

3. Replace your TF534’s oscillator with a 40mhz version. I have built several TF, TK cards, and two of these specifically, and I can find ways to crash, corrupt, etc. them at any higher than 40mhz. I suspect the issue is somewhere between the designated RAM and IDE timings. Yes, these cards can “seem” stable at 50mhz, but rest assured most are not. Yes, I’ve even used genuine 50mhz chips. Don’t be fooled.

Try these steps with all additional hardware removed, and then start adding things back in when your system stabilizes. You might even try your 50mhz oscillator once things are as they should be.

[edit] Yeah, I meant empathy.

chue 22 August 2019 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzdineG (Post 1340698)
2. Install the latest muLibs onto your 3.1.4.1 updated system. This will dramatically increase the TF IDE speed (I’ve seen as high as 5MB). Yes, this will eat RAM, but you will install more in the Z2 space later.

This is probably the first thing to try, as it doesn't require any soldering. It does require an MMU equipped 68030 though. I too would like faster IDE speeds and this is something on my list to try.

EzdineG 22 August 2019 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chue (Post 1340706)
This is probably the first thing to try, as it doesn't require any soldering. It does require an MMU equipped 68030 though. I too would like faster IDE speeds and this is something on my list to try.



No, this is #1. ;)

I’d usually tend to agree with you, but he’s already established that even without muLibs, he corrupts drives with several variations of his current configuration. Get muLibs in the mix and he’ll quickly destroy partitions.

chue 22 August 2019 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzdineG (Post 1340707)
he corrupts drives with several variations of his current configuration.

Perhaps it's related to the storage? I would say try a couple of other flash devices and see if that can be resolved. I've personally not had any issues with drive corruption on my TF534. You may be correct about going to 40 mhz - that seems to be a good frequency for the 534.

EzdineG 22 August 2019 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by chue (Post 1340712)
Perhaps it's related to the storage? I would say try a couple of other flash devices and see if that can be resolved. I've personally not had any issues with drive corruption on my TF534.



Anything is possible, obviously. It is, however, well established that cable length plays a larger role with the 534 than earlier TF cards. Before the support thread was cauterized, we had citable examples.

The safe bet is to go with an IDE2SD, which he has also tried with issues; it is a logical next step to change or try and take out as much IDE cable length as possible. I offered that solution after experiencing similar issues with other builds.

Madk71 22 August 2019 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzdineG (Post 1340698)
Hi, it is a shame how some of these things go. I understand and emphasize with your situation, as they could have been handled much better.

If you are capable of minimal soldering, this is what I’d recommend.

1. Desolder either the TF534 or IDE2SD connector and solder in the opposite of the other’s connector so they can be plugged directly in to each other. This will give you the shortest possible IDE link, and you can then extend the SD card as far as you’d like since they’re typically buffered.

2. Install the latest muLibs onto your 3.1.4.1 updated system. This will dramatically increase the TF IDE speed (I’ve seen as high as 5MB). Yes, this will eat RAM, but you will install more in the Z2 space later.

3. Replace your TF534’s oscillator with a 40mhz version. I have built several TF, TK cards, and two of these specifically, and I can find ways to crash, corrupt, etc. them at any higher than 40mhz. I suspect the issue is somewhere between the designated RAM and IDE timings. Yes, these cards can “seem” stable at 50mhz, but rest assured most are not. Yes, I’ve even used genuine 50mhz chips. Don’t be fooled.

Try these steps with all additional hardware removed, and then start adding things back in when your system stabilizes. You might even try your 50mhz oscillator once things are as they should be.

Hi, MMULib already installed and after that I get the more stable situation and a very good speed (in reading) I installed a very short ide cable, around 1". Unfortunately sometime, not always error still happens. Like if I open the directory containing all the protracker files, something like 5000 file in 22 dir. Opening this drawer or making a snapshot the HDD light is on for days(tested) so I have to reset. Or using some games with whdload the games come back with errors related to the inability of whdload to operate on the hdd. Unfortunately I don't remember the errors and the related games, because I was so stupid to write it only on the TF support forum and now all is gone.
I can try with the 40MHz but I am a newbie with the soldering iron, But someone on that forum has the same problem with the 40MHz version.

Madk71 22 August 2019 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by chue (Post 1340712)
Perhaps it's related to the storage? I would say try a couple of other flash devices and see if that can be resolved. I've personally not had any issues with drive corruption on my TF534. You may be correct about going to 40 mhz - that seems to be a good frequency for the 534.

Hi, I have tried 12 CF different brands like sandisk, Trashend, lexar and different size from 512MB to 32GB. All the same at some point and all of them perfect on my A1200 and a500 with ACA500+

GadgetUK 23 August 2019 12:02

I thought I would share my experiences here, and perhaps at the same time post some comments about the TF534 in general. I recently was gifted a 534 from 8bit dreams (which was MUCH appreciated), and initially had some issues trying to get it working but after updating the firmware it became rock solid (even at 50Mhz with 3 or so different CPUs - I see no issues whatsoever related to the speed of the CPU of my boards here). I can run the system for hours and hours without any issue whatsoever.

That said, I found that the new ZRAM board doesn't play ball with the 534 - maybe it has something to do with that DMA issue someone mentioned above? It does work with Supra boards though. I've also ordered another 4MB board (and old one that uses SIPS) to see how that gets on regards compatibility.

I am using it in a rev 6 (or rev 4) A2000 with a Kipper CPU slot relocator and it does run perfectly. I understand that it doesnt play ball with some other Zorro cards - that is to be expected as there is so much variation out there. This hasn't been tested with every Zorro card out there, that's impossible given the time and cost restraints. The 534 was (from my understanding) never really meant to be sold to the masses - it was made clear where its limitations were when Stephen pushed it out to some people to test. Whilst it might seem unfair that is is officially no longer supported - it could be supported by the community. It is open source and any of us (or all of us) could work on tweaking it to work better with some other Zorro cards.

I don't claim to know what I am doing with the verilog stuff yet, but I can see that it's probably not out of the realms of possibility of having a version of the firmware where the IDE is disabled / removed. That might then allow things like the Buddha to work OK, but then again there might be further issues that need a change to the bus side of things - not sure until we try.

And, you never know - it might get a revisit one rainy day when Stephen has nothing better to do. In the mean time, the community should start looking at the source for these cards and see what we can do ourselves.

Thanks for the info on the SD card adapter - 8bit dreams mentioned that the SD cards run a lot better and are more stable with the 534. I get around 1.1Mb/s on benchmarks with CF cards - I might try and SD adapter. I have yet to install the mmu libs too - just not sure what is required there.

When I've got the money I will buy a buddha interface and have a go at disabling the onboard IDE - worst that can happen is it either doesn't work, or I kill one of my chips lol.

Madk71 23 August 2019 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by GadgetUK (Post 1340835)
I thought I would share my experiences here, and perhaps at the same time post some comments about the TF534 in general. I recently was gifted a 534 from 8bit dreams (which was MUCH appreciated), and initially had some issues trying to get it working but after updating the firmware it became rock solid (even at 50Mhz with 3 or so different CPUs - I see no issues whatsoever related to the speed of the CPU of my boards here). I can run the system for hours and hours without any issue whatsoever.

That said, I found that the new ZRAM board doesn't play ball with the 534 - maybe it has something to do with that DMA issue someone mentioned above? It does work with Supra boards though. I've also ordered another 4MB board (and old one that uses SIPS) to see how that gets on regards compatibility.

I am using it in a rev 6 (or rev 4) A2000 with a Kipper CPU slot relocator and it does run perfectly. I understand that it doesnt play ball with some other Zorro cards - that is to be expected as there is so much variation out there. This hasn't been tested with every Zorro card out there, that's impossible given the time and cost restraints. The 534 was (from my understanding) never really meant to be sold to the masses - it was made clear where its limitations were when Stephen pushed it out to some people to test. Whilst it might seem unfair that is is officially no longer supported - it could be supported by the community. It is open source and any of us (or all of us) could work on tweaking it to work better with some other Zorro cards.

I don't claim to know what I am doing with the verilog stuff yet, but I can see that it's probably not out of the realms of possibility of having a version of the firmware where the IDE is disabled / removed. That might then allow things like the Buddha to work OK, but then again there might be further issues that need a change to the bus side of things - not sure until we try.

And, you never know - it might get a revisit one rainy day when Stephen has nothing better to do. In the mean time, the community should start looking at the source for these cards and see what we can do ourselves.

Thanks for the info on the SD card adapter - 8bit dreams mentioned that the SD cards run a lot better and are more stable with the 534. I get around 1.1Mb/s on benchmarks with CF cards - I might try and SD adapter. I have yet to install the mmu libs too - just not sure what is required there.

When I've got the money I will buy a buddha interface and have a go at disabling the onboard IDE - worst that can happen is it either doesn't work, or I kill one of my chips lol.

Hi, I totally agree with you. I hope to be able to learn how to handle Verilog, and any info how to start the path to learn about FPGA and related programming, can make me very happy. If some GURU around want to open a thread about it, I suppose that a new fantastic world will be opened. More people able to help on this important task, will speed up any future project.

I reached with CF 2.8MB/s and with SD2IDE even 4.8MB/s (with mmulib full install). I think that it could be a timing related problem, a very insidious one. Something go wrong after some time handling a lot of data that need to be synchronized with the memory and so on.

EDIT: despite the 4.8MB/s in reading, what annoy me other the errors that sometime happen, is the very slow speed when you write on this IDE device, it is around 300kB/s if you are lucky. GVP give me 1.1 in read and write and to be honest the feeling is that the speed is faster than that sysinfo says.

GadgetUK 23 August 2019 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madk71 (Post 1340852)
Hi, I totally agree with you. I hope to be able to learn how to handle Verilog, and any info how to start the path to learn about FPGA and related programming, can make me very happy. If some GURU around want to open a thread about it, I suppose that a new fantastic world will be opened. More people able to help on this important task, will speed up any future project.

I reached with CF 2.8MB/s and with SD2IDE even 4.8MB/s (with mmulib full install). I think that it could be a timing related problem, a very insidious one. Something go wrong after some time handling a lot of data that need to be synchronized with the memory and so on.


From my experience so far - the verilog isn't the super difficult bit - it's understanding the architecture of the Amiga and the bus timings. That's where the magic comes in, that's where I think Stephen excells at managing to decode all that stuff in his head and turn it into code. The speeds you are getting there with the SD card are great! I've ordered an adapter to try myself.


On a seperate note - does anyone know whether INT2 is needed or not? My understanding is it was there for a while until Stephen cleverly created a man in the middle fix, which means an INT2 connection is no longer required? Some people have suggested you get better speed with INT2 connected. I tested with it connected and found the keyboard stopped responding, but that could be because I have an earlier 534 revision here, or it might be that the connection just isn't required on the final firmware version? Sorry if this has been asked or answered, and I am sure it was talked about at various points on Stephens videos - I just cannot remember!

chue 23 August 2019 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by GadgetUK (Post 1340858)
On a seperate note - does anyone know whether INT2 is needed or not? My understanding is it was there for a while until Stephen cleverly created a man in the middle fix, which means an INT2 connection is no longer required? Some people have suggested you get better speed with INT2 connected. I tested with it connected and found the keyboard stopped responding, but that could be because I have an earlier 534 revision here, or it might be that the connection just isn't required on the final firmware version? Sorry if this has been asked or answered, and I am sure it was talked about at various points on Stephens videos - I just cannot remember!

INT2 was only there for development. The 534 was designed so that INT2 should not be required to be attached. The 530 required INT2 and this was a problem because many users did not connect INT2 correctly and would complain that the card was not working. That's why Stephen put in a hack for the 534 to not require INT2.

I tried connecting INT2 previously, as somewhere I read that the 534 should work with it. However, I ran into some software glitches. After that I disconnected it. This was on the February 2019 firmware.

Madk71 24 August 2019 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GadgetUK (Post 1340858)
From my experience so far - the verilog isn't the super difficult bit - it's understanding the architecture of the Amiga and the bus timings. That's where the magic comes in, that's where I think Stephen excells at managing to decode all that stuff in his head and turn it into code. The speeds you are getting there with the SD card are great! I've ordered an adapter to try myself.


On a seperate note - does anyone know whether INT2 is needed or not? My understanding is it was there for a while until Stephen cleverly created a man in the middle fix, which means an INT2 connection is no longer required? Some people have suggested you get better speed with INT2 connected. I tested with it connected and found the keyboard stopped responding, but that could be because I have an earlier 534 revision here, or it might be that the connection just isn't required on the final firmware version? Sorry if this has been asked or answered, and I am sure it was talked about at various points on Stephens videos - I just cannot remember!

Hi, definitely the INT2 is not necessary with TF534. I double checked with 8 bit dreams. And must be something around on exxoshost forum.

And you are absolutely right about verilog. Of course to write the code you must know what you are talking about. When I said that I like the Idea of a section where someone teach how to use verilog or similar, it mean that a deep explanation about how you come out with that code to emulate a specific hardware, is necessary.
The source code released on github about the TF534 are just few lines, I really was expecting hundred thousand of lines. Or I miss something or verilog is very powerful and simple. Of course, not knowing a single thing about amiga hardware, those lines have not much sense for me.

Daedalus 26 August 2019 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madk71 (Post 1340942)
The source code released on github about the TF534 are just few lines, I really was expecting hundred thousand of lines. Or I miss something or verilog is very powerful and simple. Of course, not knowing a single thing about amiga hardware, those lines have not much sense for me.

Verilog can be powerful, yes, but also IDE is relatively simple, so there's really not a whole lot to implementing it like this. Most of the actual work is done by the main CPU and scsi.device - "all" the Verilog is doing is connecting the CPU to the IDE port at the right times and dealing with a couple of extra signals needed.

(I say "all", but as others have said, the really impressive bit is getting it all to play nicely with the Amiga's architecture.)

ProfPlum 26 August 2019 18:34

Folks, I was browsing the exxoshost site and stumbled into this message chain:

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/vi...hp?f=68&t=1885

It seems that the Buddha is working for this fellow and his tf534

I will also point out that I too have a Buddha and should be receiving my TF sometime next week. I'll let you all know how my experience goes.

captain_zzap 26 August 2019 21:33

@Madk71
What kind do power supply do you use? Do your cf and sd adapters have power connectors or do they get their power from the ide cable and therefore from the 68k socket?
In other situations I had unreliable cfcards when powering them over the ide cable.

McTrinsic 26 August 2019 22:11

There are buffered IDE-Splitters that could help. Matze on a1k once made one.

Also you might try CF2SD-adapters. SDs are buffered afair.

Madk71 27 August 2019 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfPlum (Post 1341377)
Folks, I was browsing the exxoshost site and stumbled into this message chain:

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/vi...hp?f=68&t=1885

It seems that the Buddha is working for this fellow and his tf534

I will also point out that I too have a Buddha and should be receiving my TF sometime next week. I'll let you all know how my experience goes.

Hi ProfPlum, I wold like to be able to ask the current config of Quantumcat but I can't.
It seems to use 3.1 and I don't know if using 3.1.4 can make the Buddha unable to work. I like to know which firmware is using on the buddha and if he have a 40Mhz or A 50Mhz TF.
I done a lot of test and yesterday I managed to have a little bit of working with the Buddha, but not good enough. If I got my GVP in the most external zorroII (extreme left) and I put the Buddha in the first zorroII (near CPU SLOT) I can see the dom or boot from it and I can see the cfcard too. I can format the CF and I got a 1.8MB/s. PFS is absolutely unstable. The software Buddhaspeed can see the card but set the speed to 0 but the find device can't initialize any of the buddha driver or atapi driver because error on buddha semaphores. The budda is unable use any cdrom and is unstable. So again at the best of the results is not usable or because TF timing problems or because the ide on the TF. AGAIN, using the Buddha with the A2000 without the TF534 all works fine. Using the buddha in my friend's A2000 GVP 030, is fine.
Probably the guy on the forum was able to find a way or probably not. Strange thing is that there are any further info about.

Please, as soon you receive your TF, can you share your config and your results? Thanks


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