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-   -   Stardust is the first game to use pre-rendered 3D graphics? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98506)

drHirudo 18 August 2019 10:27

Stardust is the first game to use pre-rendered 3D graphics?
 
While searching for some information about Silicon Graphics, I came to this on Wikipedia:

Quote:

Donkey Kong Country is one of the first games for a mainstream home video game console to use pre-rendered 3D graphics,[14] a technique used in the earlier 1993 Finnish game Stardust for the Amiga, and later in Rare's Killer Instinct
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country

Is it true?

I remember around 1994 pre-rendered 3D sprites started to appear in games for example in the racing isometric game Skidmarks, also in Syndicate and many other games.

But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

Foebane 18 August 2019 10:54

Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

britelite 18 August 2019 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane (Post 1339506)
Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

And nobody is claiming that either...

jPV 18 August 2019 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by drHirudo (Post 1339501)
But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

They did render the graphics with Real3D (also a Finnish program), with Amiga 4000 setup(s) IIRC.

But funny if it really was the first game using pre-rendered 3D graphics... somehow hard to believe it wouldn't have been done earlier.

d4rk3lf 18 August 2019 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane (Post 1339506)
Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

It can be done using "one point perspective" drawing principle, but it would be a lot of manual job, and measuring, even it's only a couple of frames.
So yes, they used 3D app to create this, because it's so much faster, and they could try various different graphics, very fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCW9D2GytHo

Seiya 18 August 2019 11:51

i found this great review about Stardust
http://codetapper.com/amiga/sprite-tricks/stardust/

Galahad/FLT 18 August 2019 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by drHirudo (Post 1339501)
While searching for some information about Silicon Graphics, I came to this on Wikipedia:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country

Is it true?

I remember around 1994 pre-rendered 3D sprites started to appear in games for example in the racing isometric game Skidmarks, also in Syndicate and many other games.

But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

No. Psygnosis were first if you include their intros.

The Killing Game Show, Nitro, Awesome. All use rendered graphics for the intros.

Steve 18 August 2019 14:58

This is quite interesting because I always thought Skidmarks was the first game to use pre-rendered sprites. I'm not sure which came first but they are around the same time. Both Skidmarks (Imagine rendered vehicles) and Stardust were reviewed in the same Amiga Format issue. Actually the first issue of any Amiga magazine I ever bought.

http://amr.abime.net/issue_211_pages

Cubemon 18 August 2019 15:01

At least Blasteroids used pre-rendered 3D sprites in 1987.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE4VHvGlsmE

Mukor rules all galaxies.

Cherno 18 August 2019 17:14

Wing Commander (1990) also used pre-rendered sprites.

Amigajay 18 August 2019 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 1339555)
This is quite interesting because I always thought Skidmarks was the first game to use pre-rendered sprites. I'm not sure which came first but they are around the same time. Both Skidmarks (Imagine rendered vehicles) and Stardust were reviewed in the same Amiga Format issue. Actually the first issue of any Amiga magazine I ever bought.

http://amr.abime.net/issue_211_pages

After looking earlier, Stardust was down for a July release and the review failed to appear in the next issue of AP nor any other Amiga mag till the Christmas/Dec issues, so more than likely around the same time as Skidmarks (November).

Galahad/FLT 18 August 2019 20:46

Just a recap, Psygnosis were earlier than everyone as they bought some Silicon Graphics Indy machines for their foray into CD Rom stuff and lots of the Amiga intros were rendered on the Indy, starting in 1990

Armour-Geddon
Combat Air Patrol
Awesome
Nitro
The Killing Game Show
Microcosm
Walker

Mikerochip 18 August 2019 21:37

Wikipedia says that Xevious was the first game to use rendered graphics, in 1982.

Citing Next Generation magazine, Issue 21, Page 39.

https://namcompendium.wordpress.com/...um-14-xevious/ says it too, but neither say where they got the info.

That beats everyone else by a huge amount if true!

Galahad/FLT 18 August 2019 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikerochip (Post 1339677)
Wikipedia says that Xevious was the first game to use rendered graphics, in 1982.

Citing Next Generation magazine, Issue 21, Page 39.

https://namcompendium.wordpress.com/...um-14-xevious/ says it too, but neither say where they got the info.

That beats everyone else by a huge amount if true!

Yeah i'm not sure how they can get away with a claim like that.

For one, was there even the technology to render stuff in 1982?

The Last Starfighter movie was in 1984, on a Cray XMP Super computer, and it was all coordinate based software to draw that lot onscreen, inputting numbers from grid paper based references.

I see nothing in Xevious that would justify that level of power, and seemingly only used once for a rather crappy looking game.

Amigajay 18 August 2019 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT (Post 1339662)
Just a recap, Psygnosis were earlier than everyone as they bought some Silicon Graphics Indy machines for their foray into CD Rom stuff and lots of the Amiga intros were rendered on the Indy, starting in 1990

Armour-Geddon
Combat Air Patrol
Awesome
Nitro
The Killing Game Show
Microcosm
Walker

Yeah that was the obvious thought at first, but intro’s aside did they use pre-rendered sprites in-game pre 1993? Most looked hand drawn bar the Walker sprite and that came out April 1993, not much earlier than the two games mentioned above.

Steve 18 August 2019 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT (Post 1339690)
Yeah i'm not sure how they can get away with a claim like that.

For one, was there even the technology to render stuff in 1982?

Here is a rendered hand animation from (drum roll please).... 1972!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5seU-5U0ms

lilalurl 18 August 2019 22:46

Regarding Xevious, I'd think the rotating tiles you can see at 3:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpyFHvPizYM

might be pre-rendered to give that 3D effect (including the lightning aspect).

Shatterhand 18 August 2019 22:59

I don't think they are. 2 days ago I just draw something like those rotating tiles by hand (Well, mouse), and I am an awful gfx artist :) They aren't hard to do honestly. I used less frames than Xevious does but, still, not hard.

Foebane 18 August 2019 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilalurl (Post 1339706)
Regarding Xevious, I'd think the rotating tiles you can see at 3:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpyFHvPizYM

might be pre-rendered to give that 3D effect (including the lightning aspect).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shatterhand (Post 1339709)
I don't think they are. 2 days ago I just draw something like those rotating tiles by hand (Well, mouse), and I am an awful gfx artist :) They aren't hard to do honestly. I used less frames than Xevious does but, still, not hard.

OF COURSE those tiles are NOT pre-rendered! They are so simple to draw and animate that it would be POINTLESS NOT to hand-draw them!

Galahad/FLT 19 August 2019 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 1339696)
Here is a rendered hand animation from (drum roll please).... 1972!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5seU-5U0ms

Pretty impressive for the day, but the clue is in text "University of Utah".

Lots of American Universities had the resources to have very expensive machines on campus, and I guess Utah had the resources for some quite extraordinary computing power (for 1972).

I'm still doubting the veracity of the Xevious claim, because theres nothing remotely about the graphics in Xevious that suggest rendering would be quicker than hand animating.

I mean, they made fuck all effort on the music, but supposedly went all out to render some of the enemies!

Just sounds to me like one of those urban legends that stuck, no-one knows where it came from, but everyone believes it.

I certainly see no evidence of Namco using the techniques in further games, which surely, if it was an advanced technique for the day, it would be used more and more.

I don't know, just i'm not so ready to believe it, theres just nothing in Xevious that screams "look at me, i'm rendered baby, and I look all the better for it!!!" :)


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