English Amiga Board

English Amiga Board (http://eab.abime.net/index.php)
-   Retrogaming General Discussion (http://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Apple trying to outlaw emulation (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98490)

Minuous 16 August 2019 17:26

Apple trying to outlaw emulation
 
https://ia801504.us.archive.org/28/i...555634.1.0.pdf

Let's hope this lawsuit fails, for the sake of our freedoms...

Foebane 16 August 2019 17:37

I'm not reading all that legalese, but this is some company vs Apple, a (very much) live company (unfortunately). I would think that the situation is different for a long-dead company like Commodore.

And if Apple ARE trying to make ALL emulation illegal, I say FUCK 'EM. I've always hated Apple, it should've died rather than Commodore and Atari.

lmimmfn 16 August 2019 18:40

Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

Amigajay 16 August 2019 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmimmfn (Post 1339082)
Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

I don’t think anybody saw it ;)

Foebane 16 August 2019 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmimmfn (Post 1339082)
Apple, the same company who were proud to demonstrate PS1 emulation on MacOS

Games? On Apple computers??? What IS this CRAZY TALK!?!?!

tero 16 August 2019 19:35

This company is copying apple software. Even downloading from apples own servers and than selling it to their customers.
I've read through it and i think apple is right in this case. None of the claims has to do with emulation.

(I may have misunderstood a thing here and there as my english isn't my first language.)

Samurai_Crow 16 August 2019 19:49

This is the same as suing for unlicensed software by any other copyright holder. Emulation is only illegal if you don't pay the copyright owner and this lawsuit doesn't change that fact.

Minuous 16 August 2019 20:07

@tero: From my understanding the users download the OS directly from Apple.

@Samurai Crow: What licence should be required to be obtained by an emulator developer? I don't see why they should be paying Apple anything. Am I supposed to pay Emerson, Interton, etc. because I wrote an emulator of their systems?

tero 16 August 2019 20:38

@Minuous
The problem is they not only sell the emulator but the software as well. The customer don't pay apple to use the software. They pay the company and get an apple for 'free'

Minuous 16 August 2019 20:48

If Apple makes their OS freely available from their site, I don't see how it's an emulator developer's fault, or anybody's fault, that people download the OS.

Samurai_Crow 16 August 2019 20:54

I get it now. It isn't Toni Wilen's fault if end users download bootleg Kickstart images.

gulliver 16 August 2019 21:13

Well, Apple lawyers are indeed smart: they know that the emulator by itself could stand as legal in court. If you read carefully, they are suing them between other things for re-using the "GUI Elements". And in that front, they could certainly win the case.

Minuous 16 August 2019 22:26

Presumably meaning in layman's terms that they had some screenshots on their site, and/or because the emulator's window has rounded corners. :-(

gulliver 16 August 2019 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous (Post 1339141)
Presumably meaning in layman's terms that they had some screenshots on their site, and/or because the emulator's window has rounded corners. :-(

Yes, I am sure that the core of their allegation will be something as stupid as that.

It is a crazy world we are living in. :nuts

malko 16 August 2019 22:57

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasb.../#39501f144a3b

DamienD 16 August 2019 23:14

Interesting article malko :agree

...but slightly scary at the same time given the power this also gives hackers.

Luckily I don't own / use anything Apple :p

robinsonb5 17 August 2019 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous (Post 1339122)
If Apple makes their OS freely available from their site.

Just because it's possible to download a file from a website doesn't mean it's fair game for any use. By default copyright law doesn't give you the right to download and use it at all - whatever rights you have (besides whatever fair use rights exist in your country) are granted by the copyright holder, so Apple are perfectly within their rights to make something available for public download but stipulate that it may only be used on Apple hardware.

If you or I download a copy anyway, just to tinker with it, realistically no-one's going to care (and it may fall under fair use, depending on where we live). If someone makes a system that creates a virtual replica of Apple's hardware, automates the process of downloading the system software into that replica, and makes significant amounts of money from that product then a lawsuit from the copyright holder is pretty much inevitable, however cool the project might be.

Quote:

@tero: From my understanding the users download the OS directly from Apple.

To the extent that this is true, this is covered by the complaint of "contributory copyright infringement" in the lawsuit.


So yeah, the lawsuit's about the commercial explotation of Apple's IP, not about emulation per se.

Minuous 17 August 2019 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinsonb5 (Post 1339160)
Apple are perfectly within their rights to make something available for public download but stipulate that it may only be used on Apple hardware.

If such stipulations are not already illegal, they certainly ought to be. IIRC Sony tried a similar argument saying the PS1 BIOS was only authorized to be used on Sony hardware, but they lost. The right of format shifting is a well established one.

robinsonb5 17 August 2019 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous (Post 1339245)
If such stipulations are not already illegal, they certainly ought to be. IIRC Sony tried a similar argument saying the PS1 BIOS was only authorized to be used on Sony hardware, but they lost. The right of format shifting is a well established one.

They lost because the product in question didn't contain a copy of Sony's BIOS - the alleged copies were made during the development and reverse engineering stage which was deemed to be fair use.

There's a big difference between format shifting a product that you've bought and thus have the right to use, and making money from a product which makes unauthorised copies of someone else's product, even if the asking price for the copied product is zero.

Minuous 17 August 2019 13:37

So I presume the problem, if any, is that part of the install script for the emulator is to download the OS? Therefore, if the users were required to do this step manually, or via a third-party script, there would be no issue?


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:36.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Page generated in 0.04564 seconds with 11 queries