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-   -   How do I load ADFs into a new DOM? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=97752)

studio460 17 June 2019 00:59

How do I load ADFs into a new DOM?
 
How do I load ADFs into a new DOM?

I just bought an A1200 which already has a Gotek installed, plus a supplied, 3.1-bootable USB-thumbdrive. So I ordered an 8GB DOM (disk-on-module) from amigaonthelake. Both the A1200 and the DOM should arrive about the same time. Note that all of my apps are ADFs downloaded by a macOS laptop and I do not own an Amiga floppy-drive. So what do I need to do?

• I assume the system is set-up to boot from the supplied Gotek USB-thumbdrive, since it's a functioning 3.1 system.
• Will Workbench automatically recognize an uninitiated volume, the new DOM?
• Is there something I need to do before I'm able format the DOM?
• Do I need to partition the 8GB DOM volume into two, 4GB partitions?
• Once formatted, can I simply drag-and-drop the Workbench 3.1 install ADFs from the Gotek to the DOM?
• How do I get ADFs onto the USB-thumbdrive? Will a non-UAE macOS or PC recognize/write to the volume?
• Then, until I set-up my PCMCIA-CF reader (not installed yet), will I see the Gotek and DOM volumes on the Workbench, and then will I simply be able to drag-and-drop ADFs from the thumbdrive onto the DOM?
• How/where do I assign the boot-volume?

Thanks!!!

DamienD 17 June 2019 02:02

I think this needs it's own thread and not really easy questions to answer for the Amiga questions you've always been too embarrassed to ask thread ;)

studio460 17 June 2019 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD (Post 1327666)
I think this needs it's own thread . . .

Oh, gotcha!

Jope 17 June 2019 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by studio460 (Post 1327654)
How do I load ADFs into a new DOM?

I just bought an A1200 which already has a Gotek installed, plus a supplied, 3.1-bootable USB-thumbdrive. So I ordered an 8GB DOM (disk-on-module) from amigaonthelake. Both the A1200 and the DOM should arrive about the same time. Note that all of my apps are ADFs downloaded by a macOS laptop and I do not own an Amiga floppy-drive. So what do I need to do?

For easy data transfer, you might consider also getting a PCMCIA <-> CF adapter so that you can copy larger files faster via FAT32 formatted CF cards through the Amiga's PCMCIA port.

Quote:

• I assume the system is set-up to boot from the supplied Gotek USB-thumbdrive, since it's a functioning 3.1 system.
The Amiga will boot from the first internal floppy drive, if there is a bootable floppy in there.

It is possible to also set a hard disk's boot priority higher than the first floppy drive, but this is rarely done.

Quote:

• Will Workbench automatically recognize an uninitiated volume, the new DOM?
• Is there something I need to do before I'm able format the DOM?
It will not show up, unless someone has already prepped it for you.

If it arrives empty, you will have to create a partition on there, install a filesystem driver into the DOM's partition table (RDB), then reboot and format the partition(s).

Quote:

• Do I need to partition the 8GB DOM volume into two, 4GB partitions?
If you use a directscsi capable filesystem (pfs3aio is a good choice), the entire 8GB can be one partition.
Quote:

• Once formatted, can I simply drag-and-drop the Workbench 3.1 install ADFs from the Gotek to the DOM?
• How do I get ADFs onto the USB-thumbdrive? Will a non-UAE macOS or PC recognize/write to the volume?
• Then, until I set-up my PCMCIA-CF reader (not installed yet), will I see the Gotek and DOM volumes on the Workbench, and then will I simply be able to drag-and-drop ADFs from the thumbdrive onto the DOM?
The wording of these questions makes it sound like you would like to have floppy images on your hard disk. Why?

The hard disk should contain executable and data files, IE the same stuff that is inside the ADFs.

Since you have a gotek, it's a good idea to keep the ADF files on the thumb drive connected to the gotek, then see which pieces of software are HD installable and install them to your hard disk. The gotek expects a FAT32 formatted thumb drive, so you would just copy the files on there with your Mac.

The OS can be installed from six floppies (ADFs), boot the Install floppy first and work from there, inserting whichever floppy it prompts you as the time comes.

Just storing an ADF on the hard disk is usually not what you want, unless you know what you are doing. It is possible, you can install a virtual floppy driver which allows mounting of ADFs from your hard disk, but this has limited uses, it may not be what you are expecting.

Further discussion is needed on what your expectations and use cases are, before a useful answer can be given.

The Amiga formatted DOM will not show up on the Mac, you must mount it as a hard drive in FS-UAE and then copy the files in via emulation. Now you were talking about a CF reader. Do you really have a CF card, or do you have a Disk-on-Module? Both are sold for use with the Amiga, but a CF card is not a DOM. Or are you already getting a separate reader like I suggested in the beginning of my reply?

More expectation management: you will not be able to see the contents of the pen drive via the gotek. The gotek has a display which shows the currently mounted ADF file (I hope yours has an oled or lcd screen instead of only the 7-segment). It is literally like inserting a floppy disk into a drive, each ADF is a separate floppy disk.

Apologies if this sounds patronising, but I am unable to deduce how much you know from the wording of these questions, so IMO giving more info is better than making assumptions.
Quote:

• How/where do I assign the boot-volume?
The bootstrap process always adds each connected floppy drive to the boot list. Information about each hard disk partition's bootable status and also its boot priority is stored in the RDB of each hard drive, which can be manipulated using a partitioning tool. One such tool is HDToolBox, which is on the Install 3.1 disk.

To temporarily override the boot order, you can (re)boot the machine with both mouse buttons held. This will get you into the early startup menu, where you can disable volumes from getting mounted and also select the boot volume.

studio460 17 June 2019 19:14

Hey, thanks for that detailed post! Really appreciate it! Just to clarify:

• A1200 is a functioning Kickstart/Workbench 3.1 system (won't receive it for about another week).
• A1200 has a Gotek and a Workbench 3.1-loaded USB-thumbdrive as its only storage device.
• A1200 has no floppy drive.

In anticipation of receiving the above system, I purchased:

• AOTL 8GB DOM to be placed onto the A1200's internal IDE port.
• PCMCIA-CF card reader to be placed in the A1200's unpopulated PCMCIA slot.
• AmigaKit EasyADF + EasyADF Update (will receive electronically via e-mail) to more easily set-up CF-card support.

So, since I don't own an Amiga floppy drive, I can copy application ADFs to the 8GB DOM via either:

• USB thumbdrive.
• CF card via PCMCIA-CF reader.

I can copy ADFs to either the USB thumbdrive or CF card via PCMCIA-CF reader from systems I currently own, either a macOS laptop or Windows10 desktop (the only reason I would've copied ADFs to the 8GB DOM is so that I can install their respective applications onto that internal DOM, my new primary storage system on the Amiga).

Alternatively (and preferably), if I'm successful in setting up the PCMCIA-CF card reader via EasyADF, then I can presumably copy ADFs (from, say my Mac laptop), onto CF cards, then insert those CF cards into the A1200's PCMCIA-CF reader and "install" the ADFs read from that CF reader, now from within A1200's Workbench environment, "onto" the A1200's internal DOM, correct?

Once configured:

• 8GB DOM = Primary mass-storage/boot-volume.
• PCMCIA-CF card = Primary removable storage (i.e., to move files from other systems).
• Gotek = Secondary removable storage/recovery boot-drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope (Post 1327701)
The Amiga formatted DOM will not show up on the Mac, you must mount it as a hard drive in FS-UAE and then copy the files in via emulation.

I don't have UAE installed on any of my systems. That DOM is new, and I assume it comes unformatted (I don't know). I had assumed I would be mounting/initializing the DOM in the Amiga.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope (Post 1327701)
If you use a directscsi capable filesystem (pfs3aio is a good choice), the entire 8GB can be one partition.

Sounds great! This is among the list of things I don't know how to do:

• How to "install" the new DOM; i.e., how do I mount an unformatted DOM in a 3.1-Kickstarted A1200?
• How do I "use" pfs3aio to benefit from >4GB storage device?

Other stuff:

• How do I format a CF card to be read in an Amiga from an non-UAE macOS or Windows 10 machine? Answer = FAT32?
• How do I copy ADFs to a CF card to be read in an Amiga from an non-UAE macOS or Windows 10 machine? Answer = write as normal?

indigolemon 17 June 2019 19:27

To clarify, an ADF is an image of a floppy disk. There is software for the Amiga to allow you to mount them to a virtual floppy drive under workbench and access the contents.

In terms of getting whats on an ADF, easiest way is to stick it on the thumbdrive using your Mac (the drive will be FAT32 I'd guess) then use the gotek to select the ADF of your choice. As far as the Amiga is concerned you've then replaced whatever disk was in in DF0 with the ADF you chose.

Having done similar recently, use the Workbench ADF's on the pen and setup your DOM - then you can footer around much more easily when it's running from the onboard HDD (DOM).

ajk 17 June 2019 19:35

I tend to set up Amiga hard drives with the help of WinUAE and a USB-to-IDE adapter. It's much quicker to install everything that way rather than going floppy by floppy with the actual hardware. The latter is however more authentic, if that is a consideration :)

studio460 17 June 2019 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk (Post 1327794)
I tend to set up Amiga hard drives with the help of WinUAE and a USB-to-IDE adapter. It's much quicker to install everything that way rather than going floppy by floppy with the actual hardware. The latter is however more authentic, if that is a consideration :)

Ha! No, I'm not looking for authentic, I'm looking for easy! I only have ADFs—no floppies—and no floppy drive. Yes! I suppose a USB-to-IDE adapter would be easiest (didn't know they made those!). That method totally makes sense. But reading the multi-page document on simply formatting some media in WinUAE scared me off.

studio460 17 June 2019 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigolemon (Post 1327792)
In terms of getting whats on an ADF, easiest way is to stick it on the thumbdrive using your Mac (the drive will be FAT32 I'd guess) then use the gotek to select the ADF of your choice. As far as the Amiga is concerned you've then replaced whatever disk was in in DF0 with the ADF you chose.

I think you're describing what I had planned to do if I couldn't get my PCMCIA-CF reader working—install each ADF, one by one from the USB-thumbdrive onto the DOM. First, I have to figure out how to mount and format the >4GB DOM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigolemon (Post 1327792)
. . . Having done similar recently, use the Workbench ADF's on the pen and setup your DOM - then you can footer around much more easily when it's running from the onboard HDD (DOM).

That's what I'm going to attempt to do! Thanks!

ajk 17 June 2019 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by studio460 (Post 1327797)
Ha! No, I'm not looking for authentic, I'm looking for easy! I only have ADFs—no floppies—and no floppy drive. Yes! I suppose a USB-to-IDE adapter would be easiest (didn't know they made those!). But reading the multi-page document on simply formatting some media in WinUAE scared me off.

There isn't that much WinUAE specific when it comes to formatting hard drives, really - I'm not sure of the exact guide you were looking at but probably the majority of the steps you will need to perform on the real Amiga anyway. Not saying you shouldn't do it that way (especially if you already have everything you need) it'll be a learning experience if nothing else :)

studio460 17 June 2019 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk (Post 1327800)
There isn't that much WinUAE specific when it comes to formatting hard drives, really - I'm not sure of the exact guide you were looking at but probably the majority of the steps you will need to perform on the real Amiga anyway. Not saying you shouldn't do it that way (especially if you already have everything you need) it'll be a learning experience if nothing else :)

Gotcha! As I said, your way does make the most sense. Thanks!

Puggsy 17 June 2019 20:38

if you will be using a Gotek mainly (great choice especially on an A1200 that is stock, with no RAM), the DOM you bought is quite redundant. You could use a much smaller unit (1GB would be fine) to load the OS and some apps.

You don't want to use WHDLoad installed games on your machine unless you expand it with more RAM and/or an accelerator. Just for games, I'd recommend against all that, the gotek is great and easiest.

Still unsure what you mean with "install ADFs into DOM", but if it is WHDLoad, as I said, forget it.

Your ADFs go in the USB stick of the gotek, not the hard drive. Amiga games are made in a way that you can't just install them in hard drives easily or straightforward, that's why WHDLoad installs exist, but they are not available for every single game in existence, and they require expansion.

studio460 17 June 2019 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puggsy (Post 1327803)
if you will be using a Gotek mainly (great choice especially on an A1200 that is stock, with no RAM), the DOM you bought is quite redundant. You could use a much smaller unit (1GB would be fine) to load the OS and some apps . . .

Thanks for your reply! To clarify: I will not be installing any games. There is an 8MB FastRAM board installed in the coming machine, which according to some posts here, may or may not prevent the PCMCIA-CF card from mounting properly unless my 8MB FastRAM board is somehow crippled to 4MB. Here are the applications that I plan to install on the DOM:

• AmigaVision.
• Scala Multimedia 400.
• Superbase.
• Hyperbook.
• FinalCalc.
• Emerald Intelligence's Magellan 1.1
• Directory Opus.

That's pretty much it (i.e., no games). I just assumed the above were HDD-installable. Would I still need WHDLoad to make these productivity applications HDD-installable? The reason for requiring on-board mass-storage is that AmigaVision, as a multimedia app, may reference other audio/visual assets, so I hoped to keep some of those assets (created on other systems) on either the DOM or CF card, or some combination of both.

studio460 17 June 2019 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk (Post 1327794)
I tend to set up Amiga hard drives with the help of WinUAE and a USB-to-IDE adapter. It's much quicker to install everything . . .

So that sounds like a good way to go. So I just bought a USB 2.0-to-IDE adapter from Amazon for $17 which I'll receive tomorrow (the AOTL 8GB DOM is arriving today, but no Amiga A1200 for another week or so). But I would need to know how to partition/format the DOM so that the AmigaOS 3.1 can recognize a >4GB storage device.

Can I accommodate the >4GB limit after the fact in Workbench 3.1 using "pfs3aio"? (i.e., once I've partitioned/formatted the DOM from a Windows machine; also, I suppose, I have to do this from within WinUAE?). Also, would I be "installing" the ADFs (not merely copying the disk images) to the DOM from within WinUAE?

Note: I found a thread here which describes the PSF3DS (8GB) install.

ajk 18 June 2019 07:01

Yes, you would use UAE to run the Workbench installer from the floppy images in order to set up the hard drive. Copying the ADF files themselves to the hard drive would not yield a booting system. ADF files are to floppies what ISO files are to CDROMs; just having one lying around does nothing at all. Of course in addition to Workbench you can install all the other programs too, while at it.

PFS3 will get around the 4GB limit, although it is common to have the first (generally your system/Workbench) partition reside within the 4GB limit regardless just to be on the safe side. Installing the new file system (PFS3) is part of the initial process of setting up the partitions, you can't really do it afterwards.

There are lots and lots of tutorials around this subject - some more detailed than others - I suggest simply going through some of them once you have all the required bits. If something goes wrong, you can always start again :)

studio460 20 June 2019 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk (Post 1327877)
Yes, you would use UAE to run the Workbench installer from the floppy images in order to set up the hard drive. Copying the ADF files themselves to the hard drive would not yield a booting system . . .

Thank you for your post! Yes, I understand that ADFs are disk image files. But what I'm suggesting it that it's exactly analogous to downloading a DMG onto your Mac's primary SSD, then "installing" the DMG on that SSD to that same volume (then deleting the DMG, if desired).

studio460 20 June 2019 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk (Post 1327877)
PFS3 will get around the 4GB limit, although it is common to have the first (generally your system/Workbench) partition reside within the 4GB limit regardless just to be on the safe side. Installing the new file system (PFS3) is part of the initial process of setting up the partitions, you can't really do it afterwards.

Yeah, the PFS3 install is beyond my knowledge level so I just threw in the towel and bought a pre-formatted 4GB CF-kit from Amiga Kit (with Personal Paint pre-installed!). So I should be able to just install the IDE-CD reader into the A1200, then install Workbench from the already installed Gotek with the seller-supplied USB-thumbdrive (which has 3.1 already installed). Once I figure out what's going on, I can partition/format my 8GB DOM at some later date and swap it out with the IDE-CF reader.

Jope 20 June 2019 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by studio460 (Post 1328195)
Thank you for your post! Yes, I understand that ADFs are disk image files. But what I'm suggesting it that it's exactly analogous to downloading a DMG onto your Mac's primary SSD, then "installing" the DMG on that SSD to that same volume (then deleting the DMG, if desired).

I sort of thought you might want to do something like this. A very Macintosh thing to do. ;-)

The thing is, most hard disk installable Amiga software is not distributed as disk images, but instead LHA or LZX (or sometimes even ZIP) archives, which you unpack to a temp dir or to the RAM disk before installing.

The gotek drive is not a suitable method for getting ADF files over, the PCMCIA CF adapter is.

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/diskimage This is what you need to mount the ADFs, once you have the OS installed.

I very strongly recommend using ADFs inserted into the gotek floppy emulator for the initial OS installation.


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