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-   -   Bestest console ever for shmups? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98472)

Shatterhand 14 August 2019 22:30

Bestest console ever for shmups?
 
Going just a little off-topic, for no reason I found again an image I did and that I always bring up when a couple of friends of mine start saying Axelay is the best SNES shmup or the best Konami shmup ever (both affirmations I *STRONGLY* disagree)

https://scontent.fsdu6-1.fna.fbcdn.n...bd&oe=5DDDEB74

mcgeezer 14 August 2019 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shatterhand (Post 1338634)
Going just a little off-topic, for no reason I found again an image I did and that I always bring up when a couple of friends of mine start saying Axelay is the best SNES shmup or the best Konami shmup ever (both affirmations I *STRONGLY* disagree)


Ooooh now I dunno about that mine, I'd agree with them.

Mind you ... Macross - Scrabled Valkerie and R-Type 3 were amazing.

Shatterhand 14 August 2019 23:19

Gokujyou Parodius in both cases. Don't think it's the best Konami shmup ever (Gradius Gaiden gets the prize), but it's a much better game than Axelay IMO and I think it would be my answer to "Best SNES shmup ever". Though I never play it anymore because now I have the Sega Saturn version :D

Even Gradius III I like more than Axelay. Or Super Aleste. Or R-Type 3. :D

Hewitson 15 August 2019 08:00

Best SNES shmup? Possibly, but that's not saying much. The Megadrive was the console for shooters.

Best Konami shmup? Absolutely not.

str0m 15 August 2019 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson (Post 1338689)
Best SNES shmup? Possibly, but that's not saying much. The Megadrive was the console for shooters.

Best Konami shmup? Absolutely not.


"The Megadrive Saturn was the console for shooters, especially the Japanese releases"


Fixed that for you :laughing

Amigajay 15 August 2019 09:28

I agree with Hewitson (not many times that happens!) the Megadrive owned the SNES for SEU’s - Thunderforce series, Zero Wing, Musha, Hellfire along with plenty more arcade ports, the best 16-bit machine for SEU’s.

@Strom - the Saturn was the best 32-bit machine for SEU’s (well Eastern machine, most of those SEU’s never made it west).

Hewitson 15 August 2019 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by str0m (Post 1338696)
"The Megadrive Saturn was the console for shooters, especially the Japanese releases"

Fixed that for you :laughing

Agreed, but most of the Saturn games were arcade ports. The Megadrive had a large number of very good quality exclusive shoot em ups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amigajay
I agree with Hewitson (not many times that happens!)

Yes, it's pretty rare for anyone to agree with me, really.

Sometimes it's better to say less than more, and in this case, Thunder Force IV is all that needs to be said.

Edit: I also feel that the MD controller is far more suitable than the SNES controller for these types of games. The SNES buttons felt incredibly cheap, at least the Megadrive controllers had a bit of an arcade feel to them.

str0m 15 August 2019 11:42

Yer the MD had some great shooters as well. It's D pad (and Saturns) better than SNES.

Shatterhand 15 August 2019 15:35

I never liked the Thunder Force games that much to be quite honest. Everything was too fast, like "Oh look at this ene... what the fuck it's alread off screen", weapon balance is shit but, most importantly, the game is a heavy memorization fest but unlike R-Type, with a very easy execution on a very fast setup.

I look at TF3 and TF4 on Mega-Drive and I am astonished with what they achieved technically-wise, but gameplay wise they are just "meh" to me.

For "original" Mega-Drive shmups, Gynoug (Or "Wings of Wor" as it was names for your Europeans :D ) is just unbeatable and it's an extremely underappreciated game. Eliminate Down and Gaiares are also awesome.

Also agree with what has been said about the SNES pad. I really hate that thing. Sega controllers were WAY better IMO... that 3D Sega Saturn controller (I have 2 of them) IMO is the best controller ever, I love its grip, the dpad is magically awesome, button arrangement is perfect....I love playing with the Saturn and much of the love comes from using that amzingly good controller.

And as Consoles for Shmups, I'd say it goes:

Saturn > PC-Engine > Dreamcast > Mega-Drive . Though yeah ,both the Saturn and Dreamcast are just filled with Arcade ports. Great, awesome arcade ports :D

The SNES *does* have a very good library of Shmups too, even though on a smaller number. Konami made some very good ones on it, with Axelay IMO being the weakest of them (even though... yeah, all arcade ports. Gokujyou Parodius, Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius, Parodius Da!, Pop 'n' Twinbee, Gradius III....). Then you have Super Aleste (or Space Megaforce, whatever), R-Type 3, UN Squadron, Sonic Wings, Phalanx, Imperium.... I mean, it can't compete with the Mega-Drive library, but it's still a solid one. (Though IMO Gokujyou Parodius is better than anything the Mega-Drive has to offer. I really think that game is freaking brilliant. Alas... it's hard to not say the Konami library is missed on the Mega-Drive, all Konami shmups on SNES are brilliant,even with full of slowdown sometimes :D)

-

Just so we keep a little on topic , I do think Apidya could easily rank among those games. I believe Apidya is better than most of shmups on the Mega-Drive, it's an Amiga game that could had been published in a console of that era and go toe-to-toe against the japanese releases of that era. It is really an amazing shoot'em up. I will never understand how turds like Project-X or Xenon 2 ever got more attention than Apidya back at the day

(Actually, I do. Team 17 and Bitmap Brothers gamers were always overhyped on magazines and people do buy the hype :D).

lilalurl 15 August 2019 18:41

Some posts moved from:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98393
since the little off-topic has grown into a bigger off-topic.

The first posts were more about the best SNES shmup (although the discussion then shifted away)so if need be I can also move them to a dedicated thread (unless someone wants to start one).

jotd 15 August 2019 18:50

what about NEO GEO? AeroFighters I & II for instance. Don't they have Do Don Pa chi as well?

Gilbert 15 August 2019 18:51

Megadrive maybe the best 16 bit console for me. Like Shatterhand I love Gaires where you can steal weapons and Wings Of Wor. The sound often sound a bit too FM on a lot of MD schmups though.

Neo Geo has less available but there is real quality in Blazing Star which is godly and Neo XYX (a more recent game) which is stunning. And Viewpoint which is incredible. Also Last Resort, Pulstar and + Zedblade and all very good.

On SNES i liked UN Squadron, Super Aleste and Axelay but it didn't have that many to choose from.

On Amiga. R-Type and Xenon 2 were my favourites at the time. R-Type on Amiga is a really good version.

Retroplay 15 August 2019 18:53

As you all probably know, Gradius III suffered from severe slowdowns on SNES.
This was "fixed" sometime ago with a neat SA1 patch.
https://github.com/VitorVilela7/SA1-...er/Gradius-III

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJyQiL9wYg

Just wish somebody would do the same for BioMetal, the japanese version, not US with that horrible 2unlimited soundtrack.

DanScott 15 August 2019 18:55

Truxton (Tatsujin) on MD was awesome IMHO

Gordon 15 August 2019 18:55

Let's not underestimate the Amiga CD32

Out of the box you got
Project X
Disposable Hero
Banshee
Super Stardust

Then with fan made Amiga CD conversions you get the best of the Amiga library including the exclusive Apidya and perfect arcade conversions like R-type

Its up there!

Amigajay 15 August 2019 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shatterhand (Post 1338791)
I never liked the Thunder Force games that much to be quite honest.
Just so we keep a little on topic , I do think Apidya could easily rank among those games. I believe Apidya is better than most of shmups on the Mega-Drive, it's an Amiga game that could had been published in a console of that era and go toe-to-toe against the japanese releases of that era. It is really an amazing shoot'em up. I will never understand how turds like Project-X or Xenon 2 ever got more attention than Apidya back at the day

(Actually, I do. Team 17 and Bitmap Brothers gamers were always overhyped on magazines and people do buy the hype :D).

Thunderforce games were amazing, they were what really got me into SEU’s, maybe not your style, but they are well loved and superb games.

Apidya was just as well received and raved about in the mags back in the day, people’s perceptions of that may differ because word of mouth was stronger back then, and the whole problem with Apidya and what i believe made it not sell very well was the whole game setting and art, i mean gamers wanted space ships and planets, not plants and bumble bees! Yes we all love and rave about Apidya now because everyone has access to it, you can’t blame Project-X and Xenon II being remembered more because that’s the style art wise of SEU’s people wanted and hence they sold more.

Steril707 15 August 2019 19:16

R-Type 3 is shitting on most other Shmups on the SNES from the top of the Mt. Everest.

It's the best game in the series for me. And I am a huge R-Type-Fanboy..

Hard to believe there wasn't an arcade machine this was ported from.

roondar 15 August 2019 20:47

I concur that R-Type 3 is great, though I'll always have a huge soft spot for the original.

Which neatly brings me to my current favourite console for shoot em ups: the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16. Best retro device I ever bought... Apart from my Commodore collection, naturally :p

There's more shoot em ups on the PCE than I can count and there's a couple of really good ones. The port of R-Type is absolutely fantastic and Salamander is great too. Blazing Lazers is one of the best non-arcade Shoot Em Ups I've ever played.

nobody 15 August 2019 20:54

Pc-Engine. Gradius, Salamander, R-Type, Raiden, Galaga '88 and more.

Shatterhand 15 August 2019 21:40

No Dodonpachi on SNES. I love Last Resort though :)

Quote:

Truxton (Tatsujin) on MD was awesome IMHO
I really don't like it too much, I find it boring as hell for most of time... for long periods you just wave left and right holding fire button and nothing exciting happens and then BLAM suddenly you die from an enemy spawning from behind. Grr. It takes like 15 minutes for the game to start getting exciting.

Quote:

R-Type 3 is shitting on most other Shmups on the SNES from the top of the Mt. Everest.
Did anyone beat it on 1 credit? That level 4 is so freaking ridiculous.

Quote:

Out of the box you got
Project X
Disposable Hero
Banshee
Super Stardust
Sorry, but no. They can't compete. Super Startdust is a glorified Asteroids clone. It's good, but not amazing. The other 3 games...eeeh...


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