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-   -   CD audio games enhancement project (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94158)

jotd 09 September 2018 22:26

CD audio games enhancement project
 
Thanks to Toni who provided a nice hardware banging CD play routine for the CD32 hardware, I was able to add this feature to CD32Load and start adapting games.

First, let me explain that this isn't a trivial fix: you have to know the game mechanics very well to know when to start & stop the relevant music. For Wonderdog, I had to force SFX, and start / stop the music at proper locations (I think I could have done it simpler...), and had to implement a levelskipper in order to test it properly.
For Gods, I fortunately had Kroah excellent resource of the game (Atari ST) and it helps a lot to know when to stop & start the music, but levelskipper isn't possible because the game retains the player position ! so I'd have to add a "teleport" feature...

Not all games without music are good candidates. The argument "the game has no in-game music" isn't enough. I cannot add an irrelevant music to a game. One exception could be if some other version (mega CD, ...) has CD tracks during games. The tracks can be used (Gods is an example).
I don't want to play the title music of the game on and on during all the game (ex: Chuck Rock!)
Games with music OR sfx are good candidates too (Wonderdog was one of those): just convert the modules & play them on CD with SFX played by amiga hw.

So the good candidates are:

- games with sfx OR music
- games with sfx only but music in another platform (arcade, mega CD, whatever)
- no Tiertex games (or provide a generic slave with a continuous sound of toilet flushing)
- music has to be worth it.

Validated / first priority:

- Wonderdog (done: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ight=wonderdog)
- Gods (done: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94258). Running on real hardware
- Lemmings CDTV (replacing music by CD music with extra tracks: done: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94428). Still untested on real hardware
- Marble Madness (replace music by the arcade version music: done http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=94657). Running on real hardware
- Silkworm (adding the music from the arcade game or Raiden, or whatever, we'll see). STARTED :)
- Z-Out (considering it because the sfx sometimes ruins the awesome music by shutting down one channel)
- Supercars 2 (using tracks for Supercars I is a good backup plan)
- Lollypop (music OR sfx)
- Alien 3 (music OR sfx)
- Unreal (music OR sfx)



I had other requests that I'll consider/analyse: Ninja Warriors, Hybris, Barbarian, Fire & Brimstone, Shadow of the Beast, Lotus 2, Prince of Persia, Premiere, Leander (music OR sfx)

Not doing them until I get proper matching music, even from another platform (remember that it takes time to create a proper CD version, with all the testing, etc...). If you need rips from arcade games check this site BTW: HUGE!!! http://vgmrips.net/packs/

One of the reasons I started / did Wonderdog is that Cobe provided me with all the tracks as .wav. Much easier job like this (even if I know how to rip / convert a module to .wav), so contributions welcome to provide the tracks & to program the additional "cd slaves" that allow to play/stop the music (I'm sure Earok will be interested :))

Another aspect is "do I really want to play a lot (even with cheats) to fully test the game". Sometimes the answer is yes (Gods), and sometimes no.

BTW use ImgBurn to burn images, and burn the .cue file, not the .iso, as you'd miss the audio tracks. I've put a link to ImgBurn installer from my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8q9yzh2gj..._2580.exe?dl=0 (some links have a lot of malwares, I had to remove a lot of them from my wife computer after having selected the first DL mirror!!)

Amigajay 09 September 2018 22:59

No Tiertex damn!

I will get round to sorting some of the best Lemmings wav files out for that one.

The only other game i did mention a while ago was Supercars II, i’m pretty sure the PC CD version of Supercars International has CD audio, quite decent from Youtube videos too.

jotd 09 September 2018 23:18

Sorry for Tiertex already.

Supercars II: you could you guess that it was one of my fav. games ? If the music can be ripped, okay, else we could even use Supercars (first one) soundtracks. Well, we have to get 21 soundtracks. Watching/listening the longplay. The title track is already awesome :) forgot about that one.

SteveUK 10 September 2018 03:19

Some thoughts;
Would it be possible for doom cd32 with 3do soundtrack or something similar?

Marvin’s marvelous adventure cd32 could be a good one. Cd32 version you choose between music and sound and I’m not sure why they didn’t have audio plus music option as would of made the game much better.

Worms directors cut - amazing title but in game has no sound - possible to have original worms Cd32 audio in game?

Hybris. Would it be possible to play the game so that the music doesn’t get butchered when you shoot? (Eg play game Sfx only option with music playing on cd) Always bothered me that. Great music great game. Hope you know what I mean.

Mrz 10 September 2018 06:08

other good candidates:



Lollypop
Alien 3

Amigajay 10 September 2018 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd (Post 1267949)
Sorry for Tiertex already.

Supercars II: you could you guess that it was one of my fav. games ? If the music can be ripped, okay, else we could even use Supercars (first one) soundtracks. Well, we have to get 21 soundtracks. Watching/listening the longplay. The title track is already awesome :) forgot about that one.

Why do need 21 tracks? Supercars II has 21 tracks, but you don’t need a new tune every track, 7 best tunes would be enough (will check how many tunes are on the SC Int CD first) and repeat 3 times or get it to pick track 1 on track 1 on each diff setting etc?

Well tried and found out the PC version isn't CD audio, so that's out the window, of course could still use the music from the first Supercars?

earok 10 September 2018 10:11

Good to hear from you Steve! It's been a little while.

I think, re: DOOM, it probably wouldn't be HUGELY difficult to add it properly to the source executable if it can be recompiled from a working source. I believe it's in C so it shouldn't be difficult making it use the CD audio libraries. I'm sure someone or another could do it relatively quickly IF they can get it to compile.. but I don't know how complicated getting any of the Amiga ports to compile is.

Re: Worms, Andy Davidson WAS working on an update to Worms DC, not sure if he still is. In any case, I guess approaching him (via Facebook) would be the best way to make sure CD Audio is in one way or another.

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...05&oe=5C2DE1C3

Amigajay 10 September 2018 15:59

@JOTD - I've converted and uploaded some CD audio for Lemmings - 21 tracks, same as in CDTV music folder, sure they play in near enough same order, but it doesn't matter too much either way.

https://mega.nz/#!sE9XTCCY!W0-0tursR...Ad71teFcezBKag

Kloks 10 September 2018 20:55

Games that have not music and sound at the same time makes sense, but why for example do you want Audio-CD Music for Lemmings? It really sound great and unique on the Paula Soundchip. For me it sound way more better then any other version. From what I know from youtube other Audio-CD Version of Lemmings sound to much clean and sound borring. I think Amiga Version have the most interessting and rocking sound, no need for an CD-Audio Update here.

If there is an option in a game to have sound or music ingame then just try to convert the ingame music to wave and make that as CD-Audio and not mess around with other versions of the music, as I think, what I say before, the sound of most amiga soundtracks are so unique and should not destroyed by another (in my eyes) more borring sounding music.

For example Toki.
Arcade Version of Soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yuIDuf9TXU
Amiga Version of Soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1No7kqyuSo&t

Good composition, yes. But the Arcade Sound sound to much like an midi file. In my eyes the Amiga version of the music have much more dynamic. And that is only an example. Much games on amiga have bettere dynamic, if it comes to music, in my eyes.

jotd 10 September 2018 22:05

@Kloks: I agree with the unique sound of modules (well, sometimes CD music is better for instance check Robocod CD32 or Outrun 2006 CD tracks)

When the game is patched to be able to play the relevant music when needed, all you need is to change the .wav files and burn a "remix" CD. It almost doesn't matter which versions of the soundtracks we'll be putting in. It can as well be me singing the proper sountrack. It's the track numbering that count

Sometimes we aren't going to have the amiga module avail because ... there's no sound on the amiga version (ex: Gods). In that case, let's pick the best non-amiga music available.

@Amigajay: yes, SC international isn't CD audio (would have been easy :)). Ripping this without other sfx is maybe possible. Or just use the SC 1 tracks. As I said, when the work is done, it's still time for someone to come out with better music and change the .wav files. Not the hardest part programmaticaly wise...

@Mrz:

Lollypop
Alien 3

is there some music available? If not it's a no go.

Gzegzolka 10 September 2018 23:15

I am sure Lollypop got opinion to select music or sound effects, but not both, and there is pc version too that support different sound cards. That, this thread, is great achievement. I congratulate everybody who was involved in it. Right now I do not have list of games I would love to be enchanted, but I am sure that with time there will be one. Leander is great game for start with that project for two reasons, it is great game on it's own, and there is that limitation with music or sound but not both.

Gzegzolka 10 September 2018 23:17

Did Core Design "Premiere" got that limitation too?

Amigajay 11 September 2018 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloks (Post 1268133)
Games that have not music and sound at the same time makes sense, but why for example do you want Audio-CD Music for Lemmings? It really sound great and unique on the Paula Soundchip. For me it sound way more better then any other version. From what I know from youtube other Audio-CD Version of Lemmings sound to much clean and sound borring. I think Amiga Version have the most interessting and rocking sound, no need for an CD-Audio Update here.

I disagree , mainly because the CDTV and mainly the CD32 versions got screwed with a straight port and no cd music when the PC Engine CD, 3DO, CDi etc got a CD soundtrack it would be nice for the CD32 one to get an update.

Yes i love the Amiga tunes, they are the best original tunes wise, but its nice to have something different when playing, plus they are near enough the same tunes but jazzed up, plus if JOTD gets round to doing it, i will after convert the original copyrighted tunes they removed into wavs i.e Batman etc to use them too.

jotd 11 September 2018 00:15

Premiere, yes! And it has a CD32 release ... with music OR sfx ... :(

An explanation is that OS-killers games were adapted using RN loader (hardware banging to read CD data), but no hardware CD audio routine was available. Games with CD audio used cd.device, so needed OS to be running. Often means a full rewrite for games.

Gzegzolka 11 September 2018 08:28

Another game good for that fix would be Chuck Rock, there was quick cd32 port, but just like floppy version it was restricted to have music or sound effects.

turrican3 11 September 2018 09:57

Ok i'll have a look later to give you the music i have for games, i will try to make the music match the sfx level.
I'll comeback later.

jotd 11 September 2018 14:57

Chuck Rock is not a very good example: the same music is playing throughout the levels. I'm not sure that people who completed the game could bear hearing that 400 times in a loop.

Mrz 11 September 2018 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd (Post 1268154)



@Mrz:

Lollypop
Alien 3

is there some music available? If not it's a no go.

these games have music and sfx, it happen you can choice music or sfx but not both at the same time

ie here is the AMiga longplay of ALien 3, you can see the game have music+sfx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyORpDX9Xk&t=1065s

but is fake
the youtuber mixed both for the video

the music for each Amiga game you can download in this site
https://www.exotica.org.uk
ie Alien 3 contain 6 modules, Lollypop contain 20

Kloks 11 September 2018 20:07

@Amigajay

If there is a game that have sound but not music, I am with you. Here it would be very nice to have booth. And with a game that have the same 30 second loop of music all the time, it could have different and more music. But with more jazzed up, I have to disagree. Most CD-Audio that just want to have the same composion then an original game sound more clean and sound more midi-like. Sometimes the music of an amiga game is not well composed and it is annyoing. In this point for me it would make sence to have a new CD-Audio Track. But for example Lemmings is not needed any CD-Audio update, as for me (and a lot of other people I know) I like the Amiga Soundtrack the most. And there are a lot of other Amiga Games that have great music (while have sound the same time) and also have enough music tracks to not get annyoed.

Amigajay 11 September 2018 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloks (Post 1268333)
@Amigajay

If there is a game that have sound but not music, I am with you. Here it would be very nice to have booth. And with a game that have the same 30 second loop of music all the time, it could have different and more music. But with more jazzed up, I have to disagree. Most CD-Audio that just want to have the same composion then an original game sound more clean and sound more midi-like. Sometimes the music of an amiga game is not well composed and it is annyoing. In this point for me it would make sence to have a new CD-Audio Track. But for example Lemmings is not needed any CD-Audio update, as for me (and a lot of other people I know) I like the Amiga Soundtrack the most. And there are a lot of other Amiga Games that have great music (while have sound the same time) and also have enough music tracks to not get annyoed.

It doesn't matter if its jazzed up or not its still different and unique to CD versions, and CD audio studio 'sounding' that's what alot of soundtracks are, be it slightly different or not, have you seen Youtube its full of new versions of old songs using studio equipment?

But again i think the chance to use the original copyrighted songs is still a good reason also, if i had one choice to pick Lemmings is it, you don't have to agree its my request!


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