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-   -   Why does Puggsy look so horribly on the Amiga? (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=105216)

mc68060 01 January 2021 21:19

Why does Puggsy look so horribly on the Amiga?
 
I have always loved the concept of Puggsy by Psygnosis but the colors on Amiga are just terrible. Was this game just rushed out to be finished or is there any other plausible explanation why the colors on Amiga are so bleak and washed out? This game would have deserved a more colourful palette so much because it's a really innovative game after all!

I mean, the first levels have a beach theme and it looks like a beach after acid rain. And the colors just won't get better in later levels :-(

Galahad/FLT 01 January 2021 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc68060 (Post 1449968)
I have always loved the concept of Puggsy by Psygnosis but the colors on Amiga are just terrible. Was this game just rushed out to be finished or is there any other plausible explanation why the colors on Amiga are so bleak and washed out? This game would have deserved a more colourful palette so much because it's a really innovative game after all!

I mean, the first levels have a beach theme and it looks like a beach after acid rain. And the colors just won't get better in later levels :-(

Because it wasn't in house Psygnosis, it was farmed out to The Dome if I remember correctly.

Megadrive was lead version and possibly doing an Amiga conversion at all was a late decision, ironic really when the character of Puggsy originated on the Amiga

Predseda 01 January 2021 21:58

From a comment on LemonAmiga:

Quote:

On a Youtube longplay comments (from World Of Longplays), we can read some words from Francis Lillie himself that answers to people interrogations in 2016. Here is what he said:

'Unfortunately it was a stipulation of the conversion, to use dual playfields, so reduced the numbers of colours available. I didn't want to do it that way. The main scrolling backdrop is obviously a playfield in its own right, with an 8 colour palette. The objects and enemies within the level are the 2nd playfield with their own 8 colour palette. The problem was if there were two scrolling playfields there could only be 8 colours for main background and objects to share, which believe me, looked awful.'

jotd 01 January 2021 22:02

I believe they used the same technology/engine in Leander (to be able to use hardware collision detection) by Traveller Tales too.

But the palette in leander is really better.

saimon69 02 January 2021 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd (Post 1449989)
I believe they used the same technology/engine in Leander (to be able to use hardware collision detection) by Traveller Tales too.

But the palette in leander is really better.

Well not that much, lot of earthly tones; what saves the look in Leander are the copper sky and sprite parallax layer together with the sprite of the character, else i see mostly same choice of color in Bugsy; by the way i feel TT focused more on Megadrive version and Amiga version, as in other cases, was more the draft one that look unfinished compared to the latter MD one.

Foebane 02 January 2021 21:20

I had never ever heard of this Puggsy thing ever before, so I was bothered by this thread for not even putting a HOL link to the game. I had to look it up for myself just now, only to discover that it's yet another forgettable "cutesy" game, the kind of 2D platformer that killed the Amiga.

mc68060 02 January 2021 21:27

@Foebane: Don't know Puggsy? How dare you!!! :)

Foebane 02 January 2021 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc68060 (Post 1450240)
@Foebane: Don't know Puggsy? How dare you!!! :)

Well, the Amiga was host to DOZENS of cutesy or just plain cartoon character 2D platformer protagonists, it was hard to know them all, and I just didn't bother, as I've never liked 2D platformers or side-scrolling shooters (another common-as-muck genre on the Amiga). It's funny, but even with my later love of FPS games on PC, I still didn't like the floating platform sections in games like Half-Life, neither.

I think it was because I turned 18 before I got my Amiga 30 years ago, and the last thing I wanted to do was to play games intended for pre-teens, of which the Amiga had way too many. I mean, I can't seriously imagine people of my age then or older playing such things. I think that's why the Demoscene appeals to me so much, as these kids finally put down their joysticks and decided to CREATE rather than just consume - I did a similar thing, but only for games.

jotd 02 January 2021 22:07

Puggsy has some good physics and object management. Objects bounce, you can jump on them, they have a weight and all. Does that quality make a good game? Not sure.

lilalurl 02 January 2021 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane (Post 1450238)
I had to look it up for myself just now, only to discover that it's yet another forgettable "cutesy" game, the kind of 2D platformer that killed the Amiga.

In one of the Wiz'n'Liz mini-games (I think it was called Splat those dudes) you can shoot tomatoes at Puggsy (among others) if you want to vent your anger towards 2D platformers.
See screenshot 80:
https://hol.abime.net/1740/screenshot

Foebane 03 January 2021 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilalurl (Post 1450277)
In one of the Wiz'n'Liz mini-games (I think it was called Splat those dudes) you can shoot tomatoes at Puggsy (among others) if you want to vent your anger towards 2D platformers.
See screenshot 80:
https://hol.abime.net/1740/screenshot

You mean the characters in the stocks? Which one is which?

lilalurl 03 January 2021 04:39

Under the lady's right hand.

Foebane 03 January 2021 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilalurl (Post 1450318)
Under the lady's right hand.

Ah, now I see it. I didn't before. Guess the character really was that forgettable.

Gilbert 03 January 2021 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd (Post 1450254)
Puggsy has some good physics and object management. Objects bounce, you can jump on them, they have a weight and all. Does that quality make a good game? Not sure.


I was going to say this. Have never played it but the physics of the objects look great!


So how could they have done it better? (in terms of graphics) Just got rid of one of the playfields? or used sprites somehow?

lilwshu 03 January 2021 16:44

I bought this near release because it had been reduced to a few quid, thinking it looked like Dizzy. I got it home and it did indeed remind me of Dizzy, at which point I remembered Dizzy was crap.

I don't get the comments about dual playfields, as it doesn't seem to have them either in my memory or in videos on Youtube.

jotd 03 January 2021 17:26

dual playfield was used for collision, not for parallax scrolling IIRC what I read about Leander.

Foebane 03 January 2021 19:12

Just saw gameplay for Puggsy, what an ugly-looking game. The colours could've been improved, but it looks like there's only eight in total, aside from the copper background.

If the game has dual playfield and it was used solely for collision, then how does that work? Never heard of a game doing that before.

jotd 03 January 2021 20:53

I thought I read it somewhere, but instead I saw a YT video about Leander pixel perfect collision

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=515

roondar 04 January 2021 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane (Post 1450482)
If the game has dual playfield and it was used solely for collision, then how does that work? Never heard of a game doing that before.

I suppose they could have the second playfield draw just the objects that need to collide (in the same palette obviously) and use hardware sprite to playfield collision detection to the second playfield. The hardware does support that. But that does seem like an expensive solution - all that extra DMA overhead is not very optimal if you're only using 8 colours.

After all, if you do want to go that route, you could just as well draw the objects you want to collide with using a separate palette on this collision playfield. Same with the sprites you want to collision check, they too could have their own colours. So while it is possible, if they have gone this way it doesn't look like it's implemented very well.

Gilbert 05 January 2021 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd (Post 1450506)
I thought I read it somewhere, but instead I saw a YT video about Leander pixel perfect collision

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=515

That's a great video. Leander looks really good graphically too with so few colors. Having a way to detect universal collisions is very handy. I think that guy said it was his first Amiga game!


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