EAB on ann.lu

[front243]

Some of you might find this interesting:

EAB thread on ann.lu (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1039876721&category=web&start=1&9)

[RetroMan]

"It´s a pirate board" :rolleyes

These guys are really out of the range :cheese

[Ian]

I had a reply all typed out and ready to go over at ann.lu this morning, but I promised I wouldn't post there so I won't ..... However, I will post here;)

Some of them are complete idiots, with no grip on reality what so ever, they seem to have forgotten that the Amiga scene was built on piracy in the first place. Not that we are involved in piracy of "New" still supported and sold software here at the EAB. A fact lost on one particular ubernerd.

I imagine, like the rest of those people, has never and will never use a cracked game of his beloved Amiga, real one not emulated mind you, because using an emulator would kill the Amiga scene.:rolleyes

This really is a case of someone trying to cut off their nose to spite their face. The real Amiga community is dieing a slow painful death, and it's idiots like them are only helping it die.

Emulation is keeping the Amiga alive, not a PC clone, labelled as an Amiga that seems to make the ann.lu crew cream their shorts.

If I had a choice of being labelled a pirate for posting here, and being labelled a delusional idealist nerd, I know which on I'd pick ooo-ar me hearties.

This is my opinion, and not the EAB's. Problem's with it should be addressed to me and not our forum.

[7-Zark-7]

I'd be more concerned about how true or not those idiots gripings are-I'd hate to see RCK get a anonymous men-in-suit type, lawyer letter.

[Ian]

His griping was about DPaint 5. A product no longer produced or supported by EA.

[Akira]

I had a reply ready too, but these guys are a bunch of RETARDS. Everytime something gets requested, something that is available for sale, we point the requester to a place where he can buy it, or if teh requester is just asking for a pirate copy, we close the thread and tell him "NO!" :P

Everybody knows that. These guys are just... blah.

[andreas]

OK, but this can get REAL DANGEROUS. :mad

If one of these .. er .. "retards" who threatened to take legal action against EAB ..

[EDIT] Even more libelous for me is that that 'lawyer' guy there is also German, connected to the Internet via T-DSL (German Telekom) :mad
Maybe just a busybody in fact.

[oldpx]

We may react against it, if this happens. Spamming their miserable site to death might be nice :p

Still sold or not still sold is irrelevant, it is still piracy.

So FUCKIN' w000000000t?????

[Mr Softy]

Originally posted by front243
EAB thread on ann.lu (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1039876721&category=web&start=1&9)

:sad

[Mr Softy]

I cannot see where the problem is about dl old amiga games that are not sold anymore by the manufacturer. :confused If I was creating amiga (or whatever) games in the mid/late eighties, I would feel great surfing a board like eab.
I mean, really great.

For game that are still sold today (like some of the most recent mame roms) it is another problem tho. :p

[Twistin'Ghost]

Originally posted by Mr Softy
I cannot see where the problem is about dl old amiga games that are not sold anymore by the manufacturer. :confused If I was creating amiga (or whatever) games in the mid/late eighties, I would feel great surfing a board like eab.
I mean, really great.
In most cases, the creators of the games don't care. But, unfortunately, they don't neccesarily own the copyrights for their games, the publishing house does (transferrable to whomever bought out whatever publisher). Even then, most of those guys couldn't care less, either. It's a grey area and most of the ones creating noise about it are not even directly involved, they are just stroking themselves with political posturing. On the other hand, there are indeed some publishers of old Amiga games who have specified that their games are not freely distributable even today. So it's far from black and white.

[jmmijo]

I especially liked this post:

There are lots of apps requests, and I doubt that for example IDEfix, which is included in modern OS distributions, can be regarded as abandonware just yet.
And regardless of talk of abandonware, that is not a legally legitimate concept. I'd rather the link were removed, for the sake of moral fibre in the "community".

Moral fiber indeed
:laughing

[Mr Softy]

@twistin': You're right, but what can one legally do against this kind of spreading? (I prefer calling it "preservation" btw. :p ) It's just too big now, you close a server, and two more open... Besides that I don't think there are many people actually charging money or SELLING those games and apps.

Question: is it illegal to download a kickstart rom when you actually own an amiga but don't have the required stuff or will to transfer it to your peecee? And what is the situation regarding workbench? I know kickstart is owned by Cloanto know, but is anybody or anything owning our beloved wb? [Edit : Amiga, inc?]

[oldpx]

Question: is it illegal to download a kickstart rom when you actually own an amiga but don't have the required stuff or will to transfer it to your peecee?

It's legal

[Konrad]

Seems to have been an interesting article :D. However it's gone now. When I click the link it says "An error has occured: Unable to open article file". Why that ? Seems as if they read the reactions on it.

[oldpx]

They removed the news to remove the link to our "pirate" board. we don't want their traffic anyway. But these assholes insulted our community, I am very angry atm :mad

Something should be done.

[andreas]

Originally posted by Konrad
Seems to have been an interesting article :D. However it's gone now. When I click the link it says "An error has occured: Unable to open article file". Why that ?

Because it was deleted.
They DID announce that they're going to delete the thread.

@all: does it make sense that we keep a thread on EAB about an article we can't access anymore? :nervous

[Mr Softy]

Maybe it's still cached in google... :theparano

[Twistin'Ghost]

Originally posted by andreas
@all: does it make sense that we keep a thread on EAB about an article we can't access anymore? :nervous
Absolutely! They have censored the discussion from existence like it never happened since the "p" word might have boosted stealing profits from the programmer of Malta Storm or something. Killing this thread would pretend this incident never happened.

BTW, these do-gooders whine all day long about consumers stealing profits from publishers, but they seem to have no problem at all with publishers ripping off programmers. Where is their moralising voice on this issue? Shouldn't they be banning any mention of Hewson or ICE or the myriad other companies that flat-out stole software, ripped off developers, didn't pay for the software, then reaped massive financial reward for their piracy? It's a double standard. They are defending professional crooks being ripped off by consumers. Methinks those folks at ann.lu should carefully remove their heads from their asses.

[7-Zark-7]

I suppose they'd regard BTTR a "pirate site" too,despite having permissions from publishers/authors for their stuff.

BTW-To go off-topic slightly, Twist you did mention something I've always been curious about.
What was the situation surrounding Hewson's "ripoff"? I seem to recall Andrew Braybrook,(& Graftgold), mentioning Hewson (& its founder) like a swear word following its collapse. Didn't it get set up a new company called 21st Century or something?

[Twistin'Ghost]

Originally posted by 7-Zark-7
I suppose they'd regard BTTR a "pirate site" too,despite having permissions from publishers/authors for their stuff.

BTW-To go off-topic slightly, Twist you did mention something I've always been curious about.
What was the situation surrounding Hewson's "ripoff"? I seem to recall Andrew Braybrook,(& Graftgold), mentioning Hewson (& its founder) like a swear word following its collapse. Didn't it get set up a new company called 21st Century or something?
A lot of legal sites get flak because there is a teeming mob of self-appointed warez narcs who haven't the ability to read, that think they are actually helping someone by using a search engine for keywords that might spell L33T. How does one sleep with such a small brain (and d*ck...) ?

To be honest, now that I try to shed some clarity on it all, I have kinda forgotten the Hewson bit. I have read bios from those guys and have even chatted with Steve about the old days. I was gathering up some info for an article for the vapourware zine (Amiga PoV) about Andrew and Steve; somewhere near that time, Cody ended up taking over the publisher/developer research for PoV/HOL, which I was all too happy to relinquish to him! I'll try to dig through my paperwork and find that info for you, though.

Most convos I have had with developers, or bios I have read from the bedroom coder era all tell the same story: the software industry is a wasteland of corporate cannibals who prey on idealistic young creative people with delusions of grandeur. Not unlike the music and publishing world. A sad fact of life. Creative people cannot be bothered with details like education in the business world, making them perfect victims of sleazy suits from the school of business non-ethics.

[CodyJarrett]

Exactly - the bosses and CEOs of companies make large amounts of money from the profits of the companies, because they're knowledgeable about the business side.

They then give the 'employees' terrible pay and sometimes bonuses/pay rises to make it look like they are getting a fair deal, when in fact, it's a tiny percentage of what they get. And they create company rules that you can't talk about salaries without getting sacked.

I hate when CEOs talk about 'their employees' like they owned them. People aren't sheep to be herded by the business.

I've found in the computer business that the people who don't know about computers get all the money - the business leeches; sales people who only care for a sale and a large profit from them, rather than the future implications of their sale; bosses that only care about their large salary; and CEOs who don't have a clue what's happening within the company and even get amazing bonuses for failure.

Now you can see why there is so much corruption in business, which has been recently revealed, but was always there. This also accounts for the fact that most companies are a mess, with no real communication between these self-imposed levels.

In Edge magazine (special Retro issue) Pieter Liepa (author of Boulder Dash) says:

"What I can say is that in hindsight, business then was not very different from any business ever. The people in charge take what the workers make, get as much money as they can for it, lie to the workers about the gross and get as much of it as they can. I know now that, while I made a decent living for the time, I never received a fair percentage of the real profits. I blame myself for not participating more intelligently in the business end. All I can say now is: George Johnson (ex-CEO of publisher Cosmi), kiss my ass!"

[7-Zark-7]

Originally posted by CodyJarrett
Exactly - the bosses and CEOs of companies make large amounts of money from the profits of the companies, because they're knowledgeable about the business side.

They then give the 'employees' terrible pay and sometimes bonuses/pay rises to make it look like they are getting a fair deal, when in fact, it's a tiny percentage of what they get. And they create company rules that you can't talk about salaries without getting sacked.

I hate when CEOs talk about 'their employees' like they owned them. People aren't sheep to be herded by the business.

I've found in the computer business that the people who don't know about computers get all the money - the business leeches; sales people who only care for a sale and a large profit from them, rather than the future implications of their sale; bosses that only care about their large salary; and CEOs who don't have a clue what's happening within the company and even get amazing bonuses for failure.



And no better shining example than Commodore-the latter years?

BTW-Twist, what was Steve Turner like to talk to.
Its ironic in a way-a lot of yearn for the "good old days", when small "cottage industry" programming teams & innovation mostly dominated, & yet when you hear of stories like Abandoned Places 2, or worse, it was amazing that some of the "legendary" coders managed to survive as long as they did,
With all the rip-offs, no wonder most have left the industry. :(

To this day though, I still feel sorry for Apex software, (Who did Creatures 1 & 2 on the C64). Guys that talanted didn't deserve to be ripped off.

[Twistin'Ghost]

This is actually the topic of an article I was writing about that oh-so-delicate line between publisher and developer. It's an interesting topic that I am not aware of being written about before, in a collective sense. One day, when I have more time...