Serial link...arghh!

[quantum112]

I am at a complete loss anymore as to what to do to get this working. I have an A500 in an A500+ case, the MBO is very clean and like brand new. No damage, no mods, nothing. It has 1 MB of memory. I've been trying to transfer files over from my PC to the Amiga but so far I've had no luck.
I have already changed 2 null modem cables and 2 Serial-USB Adapters (my PC doesn't have a serial port) and none of them work properly.

The first cable I owned was some random cheap 25F-25F null modem cable and a cheap USB-serial adapter... I've configured everything properly and when using Amiga explorer I would get to the point after you press CTRL-C, and then I would get an "Error reading COM port". So I went to the Amiga explorer site and saw they mentioned the Belkin cable, F3X171-10, and they tested it, so I bought that one and a brand new Serial-USB adapter. Now I get to the point where it says to press CTRL-C, I press it, press OK on the pc, and there is NO break message, and it doesn't work, no response at all. The first bit of setup transfers fine before that.

Using ADF Sender Terminal, I send "transdisklong" over perfectly fine, 100% complete, I press CTRL-C on the Amiga, and then I have to send another file and cancel to end the break, and when I do that and press cancel, my entire pc FREEZES and nothing works anymore, mouse doesn't move, HDD light doesn't light up, only thing I can do is restart. So basic file transfer works but it seems whenever the Amiga is supposed to "break" it doesn't happen and either my PC locks up with ADF sender or with Amiga Explorer it just doesn't work. This damn Belkin cable is very expensive and since they "tested " it , I have assumed it would work... I wanted to do things old fashioned way with serial cable but it's all a big mistake and I should have got a CF card... :banghead:banghead

[DH]

What sort of Serial cable have you got, is it one of these http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_48&products_id=787 Designed for transferring from PC to Amiga or vice versa and with your USB-Serial adapter everything should work fine, in theory.

Should of got one of these 'EasyADF PCMCIA Compact Flash Transfer Kit' http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=440. Makes life very simple ;)

btw. Welcome to EAB :great

[quantum112]

It's one of these:

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=18248

USB-Serial adapter is a standard brand name adapter based on the Prolific PL-2303 design (like 90% of all of them).

To quote AE website;

"Belkin (http://www.belkin.com/), for example, lists a high-quality, universal (9-pin and 25-pin connectors on both sides, i.e. a total of four connectors) null-modem cable as model number F3X171-10 ("Pro Series File Transfer - PC to PC Cable - Serial"). QVS (http://www.qvs.com/) offers a similar "Universal Serial File Transfer Cable" as part number CC327-10, which we also tested successfully."

So WHY isn't it WORKING :bash

lol Sorry, but this is really frustrating by now. I've had this Amiga for a month and all I can do is stare at this damn Workbench screen...

[DH]

Because the serial on a pc is wired up differently to an Amiga, so the cable you have is designed for PC - PC not Amiga - PC, I think. Can someone else confirm my suspicions.

If I'm right you'll need that cable from Amigakit from my link above ;)

I

[quantum112]

"A: A standard "null-modem serial cable" (or a Bluetooth serial adapter), available in good computer shops. These cables are architecture-neutral, i.e. they are the same for PC, Amiga and other systems. The Amiga generally has a 25-pin serial port connector, whereas PCs use both 9-pin and 25-pin connectors. If the PC does not have a serial port, you can use a USB serial adapter."

This one is supposed to be neutral. It's mentioned right under that, on their site. I mean if they tested it they have to know it's working so I mean it should be working right?
Unless some chinese dude was drunk and soldered it all wrong... :spin

[DH]

WAIT!

When you said they tested it, did they test it for PC to Amiga signals or PC - PC signals ?

If they tested the latter, then they didn't test it properly.

[quantum112]

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-105

Have a read. How am I supposed to know what they meant?:confused

BTW: I Think I read on a few other places people have succesfully used this cable...

[DH]

This is how you need to make your own Serial cable with the DB-25 into the Amiga and wire up the DB-9 as illustrated. Basically you take the wire from Pin 2 on the DB-25 and connect it to Pin 2 on the DB-9 and Pin 3 - Pin 3 and Pin 4 - Pin 8 etc... Do you follow.

It looks harder than you think.

[quantum112]

:shocked

But, "We did receive a few reports about commercial cables that were not wired properly." That means that the good ones ARE wired properly, and I shouldn't need to fiddle around with anything and destroy a perfectly good cable, it should work out of the box, well at least according to them...it's been tested. :mad This is driving me nuts, I'm not wasting any more money, gonna get the CF kit.

[DH]

Have you got a multimeter?

You can then test the cable to the diagram from Amigaforever to see if they have wired it correctly for an Amiga to PC.

Test continuity between

DB-25---DB-9
2--------2
3--------3
4--------8
5--------7
6 & 8----4
7--------5
20-------6 & 1

[quantum112]

Unfortunately no.

[DH]

OK. Two wires a light bulb and a battery ;)

[DH]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to hand you over to the evening crew, here on EAB, it's my time to say goodbye 'cause it's ice cold beer time ;)

Catch up with you tomorrow and hopefully you'll be able to test that cable properly while I'm away + with any luck, you may be up and running with the link :)

[quantum112]

Maybe we should skip this pointless serial stuff, I'd like some explanation on how the CF system works, like where would the CF-IDE adapter come out from the Amiga, I wouldn't have to open it each time I wanted to insert the card in, or?

[DH]

Of course, it's an A500 :rolleyes

See ya tomorrow mate! Do a search on here, you'll find everything you need to know about what to do ;)

[Cammy]

You can't use a CF card in an A500 with IDE or PCMCIA because it doesn't have either! You would need an extra expansion board with an IDE connector on it to use the CF-IDE adapter, sorry :(

To easily use those adapters you would need an A600 or A1200.

I know many people have used standard store-bought null-modem cables for Amiga-PC transfers, an I have two different cables I have bought here that both work for Amiga-Amiga linking. It may be that your cable is one of those ones that isn't wired right, or maybe your USB adapter is the problem.

I hope you get it working, good luck!

[Shadowfire]

Here are some tips:

1. Ensure you have a null-modem adapter in your cable setup. Somewhere in your cable chain. A null-modem adapter will say "NULL MODEM" somewhere on the device.

2. Right-click the amiga explorer icon & make sure the correct serial port for your PC (COM1:, COM2:) is chosen... I believe it defaults to COM1. Make sure that the serial port is listed in Device Manager under "Ports (COM & LPT)". Make sure there is no (!) or (x) mark on the device's icon in Device manager.

3. Test the cable setup: Load up hyperterminal on the PC, and a terminal program on the Amiga. Set both to 9600baud, 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, no handshaking. Typing characters on one system should show up on the other. If not, you have a cable or configuration issue.

4. Test handshaking: enable hardware handshaking on both ends and check connectivity by typing on each machine. If you passed #3 and fail here, then you have a miswired serial cable (or, less likely,miswired nullmodem adapter).

[jbenam]

Try with another PSU.

I thought my A600 had bad capacitors or something because of failed COM transfers...
Bought a A1200 later, and used the same PSU on it (it was a heavy weight type, so I thought it was good to use because it'd permit more expansion possibilities in the long run) and guess what? Same error.

Used the lightweight PSU which came with the A1200 and all was solved.
So... if you have the possibility, give it a shot with another PSU :)

[quantum112]

PSU is brand new bought from Amigakit couple of weeks ago. I'm starting to think this board has a faulty serial circuit...erghh.

I don't have a terminal program on the A500, I just got it a month ago, only have the Workbench disks...

A null-modem adapter? I have that Belkin null modem cable and a serial-usb adapter with the same design as 90% of them which should work 100%...I really don't know why it is freezing and not wanting to handshake...


EDIT: Just a question, are all USB-Serial adapters automatically null modem adapters or are the pins differently wired for a generic serial adapter as opposed to how they should be for a null modem cable?

[prowler]

Hi quantum112,

I have built a 25-way to 25-way null modem cable which conforms exactly to the specification on the Amiga Forever website here:
http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-105

Amiga Explorer always works flawlessly (albeit slowly) for me when I use my cable connected between a serial ports of my PCs and Amiga 1200s.

If you can check that your null modem cable conforms to the AF specification using a light bulb and battery as DemonHellraiser suggests, then your problem must be with either the USB serial adapter or your Amiga/PC port.

prowler

[quantum112]

I might give this a go tommorow, but, uhm, I'm no electricity expert.
Any tips on how and in what order I should connect this?
Where goes battery, where light and where wires? :laughing

[prowler]

Hi quantum112,

You will be using the light bulb and battery to test the continuity of wires in the cable between the pins that should be connected according to the Amiga Forever web page.

Connect one battery terminal to one of the light bulb contacts and a wire to the other battery terminal. Now connect another wire to the other light bulb contact, so that if you now bring together the other ends of the wire, the light bulb will illuminate.

Thus, the loose ends of the wires will act as probes to confirm the continuity of wires in the cable.

Just connect the wires to the pins that should be connected through the cable to determine whether the cable wiring is correct.

You may need someone to help you hold the cable ends steady while you do this.

prowler

[quantum112]

Thanks, I get it now...I'll give it a try in the morning.

I think it must be the cable though, with the old cable I got the BREAK message but failed on "Error reading COM port"
With the Belkin cable which is supposed to be better, I don't get the BREAK message, and it freezes the PC with ADF sender terminal when it tries to break, which means no handshaking is being achieved at all...

Suppose the cable is wired correctly, I'm thinking of getting a PCI-slot serial port card, as I don't really like this USB conversion stuff. Real thing is the real thing.

[prowler]

Good luck! :)

[rkauer]

Using serial transfers on A500/600/unexpanded A2000 is a real pain on the * .

After setting up correctly Amiga Explorer, save the program on a disk and use it in all your Amigas, remember to use another serial replacement instead the real crappy built-in serial device of Amiga.

I use baud bandit on 68000 machines (A500/600) and new8n1 on 020+ ones. ;)

[DH]

Things are moving along nicely :great

Sorry quantum112 for suddenly leaving but my alcoholism always comes first ;) Now, if you,ve followed prowlers wiring description correctly, we should now know whether that cable has been wired up correctly. If it hasn't, take it back telling them it does not conform to the standards of an Amiga Serial port to PC port and maybe print the page from Amigaforever as an example of what you need and they may make one for you :)

You can't use a CF card in an A500 with IDE or PCMCIA because it doesn't have either!

Yes cammy is right, and I should of known this when you mentioned A500 :rolleyes It's not easy remembering things from over 10yrs ago, especially at my age :blased I must get myself an A500 & A1200 spec sheet to help me :crazy or better still, buy an A500 & A1200 so I can use the real thing ;)

[Loedown]

Have you got a multimeter?

You can then test the cable to the diagram from Amigaforever to see if they have wired it correctly for an Amiga to PC.

Test continuity between

DB-25---DB-9
2--------2
3--------3
4--------8
5--------7
6 & 8----4
7--------5
20-------6 & 1

Are you sure it's not 2 - 3 and 3 - 2, seem to recall them as TX / RX

Paul

[quantum112]

Well folks, I went out and bought a regular 4.5 V battery today, took off my motorcycle light bulb as it's the only thing that runs on a low enough voltage, regular lamp lights wouldn't light up at all, it gave a pretty strong light. Then I connected it as described and connected each set of pins to the AmigaForever website specs and all of them turned out to work and are connected properly, 25-9 pin, 25-25, 9-9, any which way...the cable is perfectly fine. The light on the lamp was pretty dim due to the battery being weak and the resistance of the cable but I could still clearly make out when something had a connection and when it didn't.
So the cable is fine. I'm kinda thinking this USB-Serial adapter is giving me trouble.
The Amiga port is probably fine, it gave **BREAK** without a problem last time but now with this cable it doesn't work...

The last serial cable I had had completely different wired pins when I opened it though...I made a mess out of it trying to resolder so I can't tell how it was connected anymore.

[DH]

Are you sure it's not 2 - 3 and 3 - 2, seem to recall them as TX / RX

Paul

Not according to Amigaforever http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-105

[quantum112]

I think I've found the problem, or at least a part of it.
I have found instructions online on how to do a loopback test of the Serial USB port. I am performing this test in HyperTerminal. When I short pins 2 and 3 (RXD, TXD), and type, the messages appear, therefore file transfer and receiving works fine. Hardware flow control works as well on the Serial-USB port. However, when I attach the Belkin cable, and short the openings on the 25F female side as per the specifications, I can get RXD, TXD to work here (Receive, Transmit), but I can't get ANY form of flow control to work on the Belkin cable (and yes it is wired properly, I checked it). IT would seem that there is a disagreement between the Belkin cable and the SerUSB adapter concerning the RTS, CTS pins, and they end up somewhere else regardless of how I connect it (Belkin cable has 25 and 9 pin female connectors on both sides). Therefore the pins don't seem to match up. Not sure how that is possible but it's the obvious problem. Would a PCI Serial Card help?

[DH]

God damn it! It should work :confused

If all the wires in the cable are wired up correctly from the DB-25 to the DB-9 then it should work. So if you short pins 2-3 on the USB-Serial adapter, the file transfer works but when you short it through the Serial cable on the DB-25 side (pins 2-3) it fails :confused

How long is the cable? Although I doubt this can be the problem.

[quantum112]

No. Transmit, receive (pins 2,3) work BOTH on the SerUSB adapter, AND on the Belkin Cable when it's connected to it.

However, the flow control (handshaking, RTS-CTS) works ONLY on the Ser-USB adapter, By shorting pins 2-3, and 7-8 on the male 9 pin serusb adapter.

On the Belkin cable, regardless if I try shorting the 25 pin or the 9 pin side,
handshaking doesn't work. NO messages come through.

Belkin cable is 3 meters long, Adapter is 1.8 m.

[ppill]

Some el cheepo SER>USB adapter don't emulate all the neccesary signals for PC>Amiga transfers (but are fine for cell phones, decoders etc.). You probably got one of those. Look for one that offers full emulation (like those based on the Prolific chipset)

[quantum112]

This one IS on the prolific chipset...PL2303...

[ppill]

OOps... hmm... cables are fine, serial settings seem fine (as you're able to get most of the first file over to the amiga). Weird indeed.

[DH]

Something is amiss somewhere.

Full spec of the A500 may help, HDD, expansions etc... There may be something causing a conflict and preventing it from working properly. When you say you're sick of looking at the workbench screen, exactly what are you looking at?

[quantum112]

It has nothing to do with the Amiga. The cable's basic flow control functions don't even work when you do a loopback test in windows, so no wonder it doesn't work with the Amiga.

[quantum112]

This is crazy, I was messing around in the terminal as usual and used some really long wires to short it and all of a sudden the flow control started working... then I thought maybe it's cause they're longer and it didn't make good contact before, then I used the shorter metal bits I used before and it worked with them too...WTF, gonna try it on the Amiga now, there is no way it just started working all of a sudden.

EDIT: OK, I think the handshaking over the Serial-USB adapter with the Belkin cable on works, I've tested both 25 pin and 9 pin, it seems though, that you have to push the metal very deeply inside to get a good short, maybe the Amiga port can't go in deep enough and that's why it doesn't work? I have no other logical explanation...

EDIT 2: It doesn't work on the Amiga... Did work with old cable so I know it's not the port.
RTS/CTS works on the PC now. Also, when I connect DSR/DTR (pins 6&20) at the same time as RTS/CTS (4&5) (on a 25 pin) my entire PC freezes, just like with Adf Sender Terminal...Gah this is driving me crazy.

[prowler]

Hi quantum112,

Does the null modem cable you are using have a 9-way to 25-way adapter on the Amiga end?

If it does, perhaps the problem at the Amiga end could be cured by using another adapter, which doesn't have the deep insertion requirement?

prowler

PS. Which cable did youy have it working with (I'm referring to your EDIT 2 above)?

[quantum112]

The cable I'm currently using has both a 9 pin and a 25 pin end on both sides, so I don't need to use an adapter. The USB-Serial adapter is originally a 9-pin male connector, but it comes with an adapter that converts it to a 25-pin male, which I don't need to use because I can simply connect the 9-pin female end of the Belkin cable to the Serial-USB adapter.

My connection looks basically like this:
AMIGA:<25F>-<9F>Serial-USB Port
(nothing):<9F>-25F>(nothing)

The old cable was a random generic 25F-25F null modem cable. The **BREAK** command succesfully appeared with it, but it still gave the "Error reading COM port" message afterwards.
When I opened it up it did seem to be wired a bit off the AF website specifications.

[prowler]

The cable I'm currently using has both a 9 pin and a 25 pin end on both sides, so I don't need to use an adapter. The USB-Serial adapter is originally a 9-pin male connector, but it comes with an adapter that converts it to a 25-pin male, which I don't need to use because I can simply connect the 9-pin female end of the Belkin cable to the Serial-USB adapter.

My connection looks basically like this:

AMIGA:<25F>-<9F>Serial-USB Port

(nothing):<9F>-25F>(nothing)

If you think that the only remaining problem you have is at the Amiga end because of the deep insertion requirement of the cable's 25-way connector, you still have the option of using a 9-way to 25-way adapter connected to the 9-way cable socket to make the connection to the Amiga to see if this performs better.

This would give you the chance to experiment by bending the pins slightly before inserting the plug into the cable end, as you wouldn't then be bending the pins in your Amiga's serial port connector.

[quantum112]

Well it MIGHT be because of the pins not reaching, but also it could be due to what I mentioned, from what I understand DTR/DSR is a method of hardware control like RTS/CTS. That serial loopback tutorial said that to properly test the loopback function you need to have both of these sets of 2 pins connected. If I only use RTS/CTS, the loopback works with both of my serial-usb adapters and with the Belkin cable as well. However, if I short the DTR/DSR as well, then the entire PC freezes or no message comes through. Obviously, when connected with the amiga all pins are connected.
Is this supposed to happen?

[prowler]

Well it MIGHT be because of the pins not reaching, but also it could be due to what I mentioned, from what I understand DTR/DSR is a method of hardware control like RTS/CTS. That serial loopback tutorial said that to properly test the loopback function you need to have both of these sets of 2 pins connected. If I only use RTS/CTS, the loopback works with both of my serial-usb adapters and with the Belkin cable as well. However, if I short the DTR/DSR as well, then the entire PC freezes or no message comes through. Obviously, when connected with the amiga all pins are connected.
Is this supposed to happen?

The connections for typical loopback serial port testing are as follows:

9-way connector:

Pin 1 to Pin 4, Pin 6 and Pin 9
Pin 2 to Pin 3
Pin 7 to Pin 8

25-way connector:

Pin 2 to Pin 3
Pin 4 to Pin 5
Pin 6 to Pin 8, Pin 20 and Pin 22

All these connections are required, and, of course, both RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR sets are required for Amiga Explorer to work.

PS. I have no experience of actually carrying out loopback testing. I just got these connections from a PC troubleshooting handbook.

[quantum112]

Well I can't get the DSR/DTR set to work. It either locks up my PC or displays no return message. I am only connecting pin 4 to 6 though(+ 2-3 for RX/TX, and 7-8 for RTS/CTS), the rest is not needed, so I've read everywhere.

[prowler]

The connections required for loopback testing vary from program to program, and companies that produce diagnostics software can often supply matching loopback connectors. Details of the required interconnections should also be given in the manual for the program and/or on the software manufacturer's website.

The loopback connections given above work with the popular Checkit program and some others.

(Extract from the same PC troubleshooting handbook.)

[quantum112]

FFS :scream. When I read of people just hooking this stuff up and having it running on the first try, I really wanna bang my head on the wall.:banghead There's two more things I'm gonna try, getting an adapter on the Amiga side as you suggested, although I doubt it's gonna help because most of these things are the same dimensions (I'll attribute this to cr**py Belkin cable design) or try that PC <> Amiga transfer cable from Amigakit.com which is supposed to be "ideal for transferring from the PC to the Amiga. If that one doesn't work, I'm gonna take and it mail it right back to their ideal ***, straight to Britain. :guru
Sorry, I've had enough for today, I'm off to bed. Good night all, and thanks for the help. :sleep

[prowler]

Using serial transfers on A500/600/unexpanded A2000 is a real pain on the * .

After setting up correctly Amiga Explorer, save the program on a disk and use it in all your Amigas, remember to use another serial replacement instead the real crappy built-in serial device of Amiga.

I use baud bandit on 68000 machines (A500/600) and new8n1 on 020+ ones. ;)

Hey rkauer,

Please tell me more? ... :nervous

[quantum112]

Can anyone spot anything wrong with the serial pins?
The one marked looks like it has a slight bit less solder than the others, it doesn't move anywhere though...

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2797/pinsv.th.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pinsv.jpg)

[prowler]

Hi quantum112,

That's the earthed pin. :)

You could test its connection to the earth plane of the motherboard if its appearance is worrying you.

prowler

[quantum112]

Hmm, everything else looks fine to me. Well if the serial port gave a **BREAK** before, then I guess it couldn't have broken in a week of non-use by itself.

[quantum112]

Hey, I have an idea, what about those Bluetooth serial adapters? Would they work? Or is it possible even for them to be *incompatible* in some way? :banghead For example get a 25-pin Bluetooth USB adapter for the Amiga, and a USB Bluetooth adapter for the PC? Would that work? Would I need to install any drivers Amiga-side or would it work out of the box? Way simpler than this cable business, or so it seems.

[DH]

It doesn't usually cause a problem as the main contact is on the other side. I wonder if the joint is just loose, how good are you with a soldering iron?

[quantum112]

I'm pretty good, with the proper tools, but not with this cheapo 80W soldering iron with the king-size tip and a 1,5 mm thick soldering wire :laughing
I've tried poking at that pin with a screwdriver, nothing seems to move.

[quantum112]

OK, after looking at these Bluetooth-Serial adapters I'm worried about a few things;

1. First of all they seem to need 5V power from an adapter. If the Amiga feeds 12V on pin 9 that's going to fry them pretty quick. How would I go about making it only get power from the adapter? I'm thinking maybe get a 9-25 Pin converter and desolder the power pin from it and use it that way?

2. All of the data-sheets I've read seem to indicate that these USB-Serial adapters have their DTR/DSR pins "NC" - Not connected... if they don't have them connected, and Amiga Explorer needs them, isn't this going to cause problems?

3. What is the difference between DCE/DTE adapters and which one should I get for the PC and which one for the Amiga?

[prowler]

After setting up correctly Amiga Explorer, save the program on a disk and use it in all your Amigas, remember to use another serial replacement instead the real crappy built-in serial device of Amiga.

I use baud bandit on 68000 machines (A500/600) and new8n1 on 020+ ones. ;)

I have been Googling to find out more about this and see what can be done to speed up Amiga Explorer.

The key to this is to find a replacement for the Amiga's serial.device, and three are available.

Reportedly, the most reliable of these is BaudBandit, followed by ArtSer and finally New8n1.

BaudBandit v1.4b is available on Aminet here:
http://aminet.net/package/comm/misc/baudbandit1.4b

ArtSer v37.6 is available here:
http://ftp.uni-heidelberg.de/ftp/pub/net/amiga/misc/ArtSer37_6.lha

and New8n1 v43.5 is also available on Aminet here:
http://aminet.net/package/comm/misc/New8n1

Now to go and have some fun! :spin

@quantum112:

Have a look at ADF Sender Terminal v1.5r4 here:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/
It uses TransWarp v1.4.3 to get baud rates up to 115,200 from Amiga to PC via a null modem cable, and uses only RTS/CTS protocol. ;)

Alternatively, as you suggested earlier, you could fit a PCI-slot serial port card to your PC.

prowler

[quantum112]

@quantum112:

Have a look at ADF Sender Terminal v1.5r4 here:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/
It uses TransWarp v1.4.3 to get baud rates up to 115,200 from Amiga to PC via a null modem cable, and uses only RTS/CTS protocol. ;)

Alternatively, as you suggested earlier, you could fit a PCI-slot serial port card to your PC.

prowler

I have already used this program, It sends the first file OK. Then I CTRL-C on the Amiga to **BREAK**, send another file to complete the break, press CANCEL, PC freezes. Regardless of handshaking type, RTS, Xon, Xon/CTS, NO handshaking, it still freezes after break.

Oh by the way, a family member that I sent to buy me this cable before I bought the first one, bought TWO more of the EXACT same Belkin cables that I used first, I have tested both of the new ones today, NONE of them work...that eliminates the possibility of mine being wired incorrectly. They do NOT work. Belkin F3X171-10, watch out people, these cables are junk and they do not work...at all.

[prowler]

I would seriously consider adding a PCI-slot serial port card to you PC. It would really be a lot simpler than trying to troubleshoot Bluetooth-Serial adapters, IMHO.

Edit: And resurrect the first cable you had, checking that its wiring matches the AF specifications.

[quantum112]

Well, I'm going to order a PCI-Serial card, but that's the last thing I'm doing before I get a pair of Bluetooth devices, honestly. The only thing left that I have from the old cable are the two 25 pin ends and the cabling which is detached completely mind you. There are solder marks still on the pins so I can see which ones were soldered though I have made a few but those are easily distinguishable by being oversized and imprecise.

So looking at it I can tell you that the cable had these pins wired:

Pin 1, Pin 2, Pin 3, Pin 4, Pin 5, Pin 7, Pin 8
Pin 15, Pin 17, Pin 20, Pin 24

That's a really weird pinout but that's how it is. I can't tell what was connected to what because like I said wires are gone.
The cable did succesfully give **BREAK** message, but gave "Error reading COM port."

I have a feeling this USB serial adapter is not wiring DTR/DSR and possibly not even CD.

[prowler]

Don't worry about how your original cable was wired, just use the two 25-way female ends to construct your own cable which conforms exactly to the requirements for a null modem cable given on the Amiga Forever website.

And you're probably right about the USB-Serial adaptor.

[quantum112]

I've got a soldering iron that's not nearly precise enough for a job as finicky as this. Bet you a beer it's the USB adapter, I'll be damned if that thing emulates DTR/DSR or CD, that's probably why the first cable "worked", it didn't have some of those pinouts, and I'd be willing to bet these Belkin cables are wired properly, hell I've tested them and they conform to those specs on the website perfectly, but the USB adapter is probably not wiring some of those flow control pins at all, and it wasn't cheap either. But as soon as you see a brand called "Value " on it, it's clear what this is, generic cheap chinese stuff. I'm going to get that Serial Card in a day or two and I'm willing to bet all 3 of the cables work flawlessly with it.

If only I could find some proper DTR/DSR/CD testing software I'd probably figure it out right now, only that it's kinda hard to short male pins.

[prowler]

I'm going to get that Serial Card in a day or two and I'm willing to bet all 3 of the cables work flawlessly with it.

Good luck! :)

While you're waiting for it to arrive, have a look at some of the serial.device replacements I linked to above, for speeding up Amiga Explorer. The ArtSer device looks about the easiest to install.

[quantum112]

I'll probably go for baudbandit, seems the most well-known and reliable.

[prowler]

Yes, that'll be fine. :) BaudBandit is shareware, but it doesn't nag you on a 68000 machine.

ArtSer, on the other hand is freeware. ;)

[quantum112]

I found a relatively cheap PCI serial card, have a look:

http://www.sweex.com/PU006V2

Think this'll be good?

Also has 64-bit XP drivers from what I can see so that's good.

[prowler]

Yes, it looks good. :great

Comes with manual and driver CD too. :)

Edit: Didn't find the bit about the 64-bit XP drivers, but if it's got those as well (and they work), it must be good! :agree

[quantum112]

Yeah, retail package... Guess I'll get that one then, should be here in a day or two. Also, my 23D<>SCART Video cable that I bought for a dollar on eBay lived up to it's price tag when I completely lost picture yesterday, opened it up to see two unisolated wires shorting and a third one completely loose... :nuts

Whoever said "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap stuff" - he has it right. ;)

Good thing I have a box full of old cables and in it I found a regular RCA><SCART cable that I got from one of the graphics cards so I can enjoy me some ole monochrome :laughing:D

[prowler]

Hey, your'e really having a bad week! :shocked

Let's hope your luck is about to turn. :)

[quantum112]

Hopefully :bowdown

[quantum112]

One more thing, I was mistaken, the one I've linked you is the PU006V2, but the one I've found at the store http://www.sweex.com/PU006 (regular PU006, not V2)...still it has 64 bit XP drivers, only seems to use a different chip, there are a few differences in specs:

PU006:
* Supports: 2x fast serial UART 16C550 Chip
* Supports: IRQ sharing (shares IRQ / sources with other I/O cards)
* Serial data transfer up to 1 Mbytes/sec
* 32-bit PCI bus
* Single 5V operation, Low Power
* Chipset: Moschip MCS9835CV
* Supports: Windows 98SE, 2000, XP and Vista

PU006V2:
* Fully compliant with PCI Local Bus Specification Revision 2.3
* Supports: IRQ sharing
* Compatible with industrial standard 16C550 UART
* On-chip 256-byte depth FIFO in Transmit & Receive paths of each port
* Fast data rate up to 115.2 Kbits/sec on each port
* Supports: Hardware and software flow control
* Supports: 5-, 6-, 7-, 8-, 9- bit serial format
* Supports: Even, Odd, None, Space & Mark parity
* Supports: 1 or 2 Stop bit operation
* Chipset: Moschip MCS9865CV
* Supports: Windows 2000, XP and Vista

The regular PU006 that I've found in the store doesn't mention hardware or software flow control, but it has to support it, since a PC-side port has all the pins wired, am I right? I think everything is probably more or less the same other than the chipset.

[prowler]

Yes, I think the regular PU006 will do just as well. :)

The important thing to look out for with serial cards is the 16C550 UART chips. They will give you up to 115,200 baud rate, which is fast enough to communicate with anything, let alone an Amiga. ;)

I'm sure it'll be fine. :spin

[quantum112]

Excellent, thanks - you are of enormous help :great

I'll chime in when I get the card.

[prowler]

Excellent, thanks - you are of enormous help :great

Not at all. You're most welcome. :)

I'll chime in when I get the card.

Thanks. That will be appreciated. :great

BTW, I liked the girl on the PU006V2 box better. ;)

[quantum112]

BTW, I liked the girl on the PU006V2 box better. ;)

Yeah :laughing I guess the PU006, being the "weaker" board and all, isn't allowed to have a better packaging, would be backwards marketing ;)

Funny how they use women to sell everything nowadays, even something entirely unrelated like a serial card :crazy

[rkauer]

I found a relatively cheap PCI serial card, have a look:

http://www.sweex.com/PU006V2

Think this'll be good?

Also has 64-bit XP drivers from what I can see so that's good.

I like the girl! Is she built-in on the package?:blased

[quantum112]

I like the girl! Is she built-in on the package?:blased

At that price, dream on :D

[AmigaFriend]

I like the girl! Is she built-in on the package?:blased


She's the support technician! Now, where's that support line number?

I bought this cable some 9 years ago to pass my dms library backup to CD and it always worked well without any problems. It has on each end a 25 pin and 9 pin connectors. So it plugs to any serial port.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4222/dsc087961658100.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc087961658100.jpg)

[quantum112]

Yep, these Belkin cables have double ends as well...BTW, anyone need one?
I have two extra now :spin

[quantum112]

OK, I ordered a PCI Serial Card but I've also ordered two Brainboxes RS232 Bluetooth serial adapters, mainly because these serial ports are going to be on the back of the PC and I don't want to have cables running all over my room even when they're not doing anything.
This way I can have a Bluetooth device connected to the Amiga serial port all of the time and one on the back of my PC and I can simply initiate the connection any time I want to transfer an ADF over. Simple. These ones also have great configuration software so I should be able to do what I want with them.

One question though, since these are 9 pin female devices I am going to need a 9-25 pin adapter to plug into the Amiga end, since the device is essentially already "null-modem" wired, what type of adapter should I get, because it is essential that they are wired properly as well. Wouldn't a null modem adapter on a null modem device basically be a double negative and reverse the lines? I'm going to assume I need a straight adapter?

Thanks

[Jope]

Hmm. If the bluetooth adapter conforms to RS232 spec, it would act as a DTE if it has a male connector and as a DCE if it has a female connector.

Two males together = crossover cable needed, male -> female = straight cable needed.

Otherwise: look at the pinouts for the Amiga and the BT-RS232 adapter and connect rx to tx and vice versa.

[quantum112]

http://tinyurl.com/n2va4s

It's one like this, so that means DCE.
The power rating on it is 5V-13.6V which means it shouldn't have any problems
being powered from the A500's 12V pin 9, that said do these 9-25 pin converters wire pin 9 as well? Otherwise I won't get no power...:sad

[Loedown]

Greetings,
I could never get Amiga Explorer working reliably, I got a network card for the Amiga, that works.

On my Amiga 2000, I had several serial pins that would actually slide in the connector when you plugged in a cable.

If you really want to continue farting around with serial, buy 2 breakout boxes, then you can 'make' your own cables.

Paul

[rkauer]

The thing is: although Amiga Explorer is a powerful program, serial transfers sucks.

Parallel transfers are a lot faster (under Winblows XP or less) and LAN transfers are the best.

I don't know any program for PARNET who works on Vista.

[Loedown]

The thing is: although Amiga Explorer is a powerful program, serial transfers sucks.

Parallel transfers are a lot faster (under Winblows XP or less) and LAN transfers are the best.

I don't know any program for PARNET who works on Vista.

Anyone who uses Vista shouldn't be.

Did Micro$oft manage to break even the parallel port in Vista?

Paul

[Jope]

Nope, the parallel port works fine. It's just that the old win9x way of accessing is no longer supported in Vista and above.

Too bad many of these transfer software projects are abandoned and no-one's going to update them to support current OSes.

[quantum112]

Anyway, just to put an end to this; I finally bought a PCI 2xSerial+Parallel port (doesn't hurt to have Parallel too) and what do you know, everything works out of the box.
ADF Transfer, Amiga Explorer, everything functions perfectly, with that same Belkin cable (of which I have 3; I tested all 3 - they all worked.) So those USB-Serial adapters are a real piece of ... you know what. Could have saved me a lot of money if I just got this Sweex card right away. Oh well, time for some Lotus 2 :) I'll try to get Bluetooth working soon because my cable is a bit too short and I had to move my PC to a rather uncomfortable position, but at least it works.