Upgrading Blizz 1240 - which 060 to choose?

[tnt23]

Hi all,

I've got a dead Blizzard 1240T/ERC collecting dust for quite some time. I think I'll give it another chance, replacing (allegedly) dead 040 on it with 060 of some kind.

The question is, which 060 to get? I don't need any serious overclocking, so I think any 50MHz 060 will do. There are a few of them on eBay, both XC and MC. Which will be better choice? I'd prefer a more stable and cooler one, what would you guys recommend?

[rkauer]

Send it to Dimlow (cheap fix and excellent bloke) or take the expensive and superb service of Amiga Repair France.

If your option is the cheapest possible, buy an old revision 060 (XC type) from IC-China (38 USD + shipping).

For cool running, only the latest revision will do: mask E41J (rather expensive).

[Dimlow]

Blow me, Im getting a few recomenadtions here, but anyway, i have never touched a Blizzard except for the 030 i have here. I have just finished another dead Apollo 1240 though!

[rkauer]

Blow me,<snip>

No way! :blased

Back on-topic:

The Blizzard are rather easy to upgrade, since the voltage regulator are always present on the board. It's a mere matter of moving a pair of SMD resistors (and replace the 040 for a 060, obviously) and boot the board without any RAM on it.

Oh, and put the correct 060 libs on drawer. ;)

[DJBase]

The question is, which 060 to get? I don't need any serious overclocking, so I think any 50MHz 060 will do. There are a few of them on eBay, both XC and MC. Which will be better choice? I'd prefer a more stable and cooler one, what would you guys recommend?

Get the latest and greatest Revision with the Mask 71E41J (thats Revision 6). It will be the coolest version and can run up to 100 MHz. Don't get the old XC versions.

[coze]

higher clocked 060's on ebay are usually EC or LC. be careful, get a full 060 no matter what the clock.

by the way, how is the SD floppy emulator going ?

[papa_november]

Can any Amiga 060 accelerators even run reliably at 100 MHz? I thought only the CT60 was designed for stuff like that. The most I've heard of was 75-90 on a good day.

Are the earlier 060s really that bad heat-wise?

[tnt23]

Thanks all! So I'll be looking for an MC with that famous 71E41J mask :)

Sending the board to PG can hardly be an option, as I will miss all the fun! (I can always send it if/after I fail to upgrade it myself)

cose, the emulator is still working, although the code hasn't been revised since April. Writing to the emulated floppy works, too. Modified floppy image can be saved as 2 megabytes .MFM file, which later can be converted to ADF on the PC, or loaded back as is.

[DJBase]

Can any Amiga 060 accelerators even run reliably at 100 MHz? I thought only the CT60 was designed for stuff like that. The most I've heard of was 75-90 on a good day.

No, 80 MHz is the fastest which you can get on an Apollo card.

Are the earlier 060s really that bad heat-wise?

Not as bad as the 040 but hotter than the latest mask.

[Dimlow]

No, 80 MHz is the fastest which you can get on an Apollo card.

I believe the 80 Mhz Barrier can be broken the limitation of the apollo is the memory interface on the board as it runs the memory faster than other Accelerators either at full clock speed or half clock speed. With the 80 Mhz 060 the memory is running at half clock, so that's 40Mhz but with the 040 you can run it a full clock speed, so with the 40Mhz 040 you can run the memory at 40Mhz too, but i believe most boards are set up to run it at 20Mhz, anyway i have run a 040 @ 50 Mhz also running the memory at 50Mhz so my memory can take it. ie 100 Mhz 060 with half speed memory. There is one component on the board that not rated at above 80Mhz the 74f74 i have changed that to a 74ac74 (125Mhz). Also the mach chips can vary in quality and may not run with a 100 Mhz 060. All i need now is a set of oscillators to start my testing. Anyway this is off topic here.

I have looked into blizzard upgrading, its not hard to do, go slow and you should manage it.

[tnt23]

The Blizzard are rather easy to upgrade, since the voltage regulator are always present on the board. It's a mere matter of moving a pair of SMD resistors (and replace the 040 for a 060, obviously) and boot the board without any RAM on it.

Oh, and put the correct 060 libs on drawer. ;)

My board is missing the voltage regulator. There's an empty space for it, allowing for either through-hole or SMT. On the back, the card is marked as "Blizzard 1260 (c) phase 5 digital products '94, '95 REV II Carda/Kordel/Kna:bel EWK-X30".
I guess I can spot missing components and jumpers to relocate by inspecting the images of true 1260 card.

I can borrow 50MHz 68EC060 from a friend for testing - will it boot without those 060 libs?

[Dimlow]

Yea, it will boot

[DJBase]

I believe the 80 Mhz Barrier can be broken the limitation of the apollo is the memory interface on the board as it runs the memory faster than other Accelerators either at full clock speed or half clock speed. With the 80 Mhz 060 the memory is running at half clock, so that's 40Mhz but with the 040 you can run it a full clock speed, so with the 40Mhz 040 you can run the memory at 40Mhz too, but i believe most boards are set up to run it at 20Mhz, anyway i have run a 040 @ 50 Mhz also running the memory at 50Mhz so my memory can take it. ie 100 Mhz 060 with half speed memory. There is one component on the board that not rated at above 80Mhz the 74f74 i have changed that to a 74ac74 (125Mhz). Also the mach chips can vary in quality and may not run with a 100 Mhz 060. All i need now is a set of oscillators to start my testing. Anyway this is off topic here.

But would be a nice proof-of-concept if the card can be hacked to run faster than 80 MHz.

[Dimlow]

Next time i order some components i will order a some 100 Mhz and some 90 Mhz oscillators and we will see.

[alexh]

I believe that it's either been proved that setting the wait-states to 1+ kills performance too much or doesn't aid in speed compatibility.

Blizzard boards also have the ability to program in and save default wait states (with the cpu060 command) too.

With 50ns FPM DRAM the burst rate is theoretically much lower than 80MHz so I am surprised it works as well as it does! You need to go to SDRAM to enjoy the maximum speed rates and that would involve a new accelerator.

[Dimlow]

Alex, with the apollo 060 at 80 Mhz, the ram runs at 40Mhz

[alexh]

I dunno enough about 060 bus cycles to know if that's good or bad.

[tnt23]

Well, I bought myself a 30W soldering iron combined with vacuum solder extractor, and have removed 040 from my board. Comparing the board with the image of original 1260 (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/dce1260_fr_big.jpg) revealed two more places where they differ.

First, there's a 220 Ohm resistor under MACH chip that is to the right from the CPU that is soldered in the left position on my board. On the 1260 board, it is set to the right position.
Here it is (sorry ZetrO, this is only a teaser):
http://images47.fotki.com/v1403/photos/1/1349988/7030054/closeup1-vi.jpg

Does it have to be repositioned? The translated French site doesn't mention it, at least I haven't found anything on it.

Next, on 1240 board there is a diode and a 330 Ohm resistor in series obviously relating to clock backup battery:
http://images43.fotki.com/v1369/photos/1/1349988/7030054/closeup3-vi.jpg

On the 1260 board, the resistor has been replaced with the same diode, and the position of the latter is clear.

Can somebody comment on this also?

[alexh]

I thought that the biggest difference was the voltage regulator? 3.3v instead of 5v? The other would be to do with the crystal?

[Damion]

I believe the 80 Mhz Barrier can be broken the limitation of the apollo is the memory interface on the board as it runs the memory faster than other Accelerators either at full clock speed or half clock speed. With the 80 Mhz 060 the memory is running at half clock, so that's 40Mhz but with the 040 you can run it a full clock speed, so with the 40Mhz 040 you can run the memory at 40Mhz too, but i believe most boards are set up to run it at 20Mhz, anyway i have run a 040 @ 50 Mhz also running the memory at 50Mhz so my memory can take it. ie 100 Mhz 060 with half speed memory. There is one component on the board that not rated at above 80Mhz the 74f74 i have changed that to a 74ac74 (125Mhz). Also the mach chips can vary in quality and may not run with a 100 Mhz 060. All i need now is a set of oscillators to start my testing. Anyway this is off topic here.


Some pretty interesting info. I've attempted 100MHz on mine, it will boot but only without RAM. I've tried a zillion SIMMs, but I can't get the RAM operating at 50MHz, even with the CPU and RAM at 1/1. Perhaps it would be worth replacing the chip you mention, and giving it a go... I suppose the CPU might need more juice as well. (It should be possible though, I know at least the Apollo 4060 can hit a CPU clock of 100MHz.)

[tnt23]

I thought that the biggest difference was the voltage regulator? 3.3v instead of 5v? The other would be to do with the crystal?

In fact, the biggest one was 68060 instead of 68040.

The voltage regulator is quite obvious. Although the 1260 misses the three diodes in series close to the regulator, that's another question!

And as for the crystal, it only has to be replaced, right? No jumpers?

[rkauer]

Just that one under the EPROM/ROM, move it to 060. :rolleyes

[tnt23]

Just that one under the EPROM/ROM, move it to 060. :rolleyes

Sorry I haven't made myself clear :)

On my board (1240) the 220 Ohm resistor is on the left. On the 1260 it is on the right. If I am upgrading, can I leave this resistor as it is (shown on the photo), or shall I move it to the right?

There are no other resistors/jumpers around EEPROM chip (located at the bottom right corner of the card).

[rkauer]

No need to change anything more.

Oh, just the new EPROM must be soldered (27c1000, IIRC) with the proper 060 code.

[Dimlow]

Some pretty interesting info. I've attempted 100MHz on mine, it will boot but only without RAM. I've tried a zillion SIMMs, but I can't get the RAM operating at 50MHz, even with the CPU and RAM at 1/1. Perhaps it would be worth replacing the chip you mention, and giving it a go... I suppose the CPU might need more juice as well. (It should be possible though, I know at least the Apollo 4060 can hit a CPU clock of 100MHz.)

I agree, your processor running at 100Mhz with out ram looks good, but this is not the place to be discussing this. I will setup a new thread when i have a go at getting it faster. I don't have a lot of faith that it will work. I just think it may be possible and it may not, it needs checking though.

[tnt23]

No need to change anything more.

Oh, just the new EPROM must be soldered (27c1000, IIRC) with the proper 060 code.

Are we still talking about Blizzard 1240/1260, not Apollos? :confused

[Damion]

@tnt23

This thread (http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45584&forum=8#forumpost528101) @ amiga.org has some info on the resistor issue.

[tnt23]

@tnt23

This thread (http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45584&forum=8#forumpost528101) @ amiga.org has some info on the resistor issue.

Thanks Damion!

[Dimlow]

No need to change anything more.

Oh, just the new EPROM must be soldered (27c1000, IIRC) with the proper 060 code.

SOLDERED NA, put it in a socket, does the blizzard need this ?

[rkauer]

Sorry, no. Blizzard's don't need any ROM/EPROM change. :o

[tnt23]

Sorry, no. Blizzard's don't need any ROM/EPROM change. :o

Glad to hear that :agree Now, what about those diode and resistor in series near the clock battery on 1240? Do I leave they as they are, or replace one with another as seen on 1260?

[tnt23]

So far, I've put the socket onto the board, threw 68EC060 in there, soldered 50MHz clock and the regulator, switched two jumpers, and was amazed to see the spectacular rainbow on boot!

The system wouldn't boot without 68060.library, so I have put that into LIBS: and voila, it works! The EC060 however gets rather warm, I hardly can hold my finger on it. And the SysInfo would hang every time I'd try to measure speed, but this isn't big deal.

Thanks guys for your help :)

[rkauer]

Congratulations! Now it's time for a full 060 on that baby.

How is the floppy emulator going, BTW? :)

[tnt23]

Congratulations! Now it's time for a full 060 on that baby.

Yes, will start looking for MCs with the latest maskset on ebay after Christmas. I was thinking of getting one of (cheaper) XC, but the EC060 in my Blizzard is running pretty hot, so it is better to get a cooler one (and if I somehow manage to close the trapdoor, the temperature inside the case will be even higher).


How is the floppy emulator going, BTW? :)Just the same, not much progress since my reply to cose :laughing http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=486384&postcount=8

BTW, I used the emulator to install 68060.library to my 1200 system. Very handy :spin

[meckert]

Hi, I'm planning to do a similar upgrade , but I've bought a XC68060RC60A unit. My question is how fast can it go ? I thing that 66 Mhz is no problem, but will it work at 80 (with the same cooling as 040 - radiator + fan)?

[rkauer]

Those old versions don't overclock very well. I think the limit will be 60MHz, over this the board will become unstable and you will loose the MMU and FPU functionalities.

[meckert]

Those old versions don't overclock very well. I think the limit will be 60MHz, over this the board will become unstable and you will loose the MMU and FPU functionalities.


Is there any reliable source of your statement. I've heard that even Xc heat less than 040 - and 040's can be overcloked.

Anyway, i've ordered a 66 Mhz oscillator - hope that's not too much for XC 68060 RC 60A.

[rkauer]

Again: depends on the mask revision.

Older ones don't overclock well. From experience with a lot of Brazilian friends, original 060 on those boards go unstable over 60MHz, which is a 20% overclock (not bad at all).

[Chain]

RC60 will not work at 80, even 75 is really unstable

[meckert]

RC60 will not work at 80, even 75 is really unstable


Ok but will it work stable at 66 ?

[Damion]

Ok but will it work stable at 66 ?

64-66MHz should be OK. I had a Blizz 1260 which came with the 60MHz '060 (XC rated), IIRC it became unstable around 70MHz. However, I don't know if the limit was the '060, or errors from the overclocked bus.

[rkauer]

RC60 units are LC versions: they don't have MMU nor FPU. Bad to your accelerator.

[meckert]

RC60 units are LC versions: they don't have MMU nor FPU. Bad to your accelerator.


No,man , check better http://www.bboah.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=68&id=2972&artlang=en .

RC's are full versions they just heat more.

[Dimlow]

No,man , check better http://www.bboah.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=68&id=2972&artlang=en .

RC's are full versions they just heat more.


Err No!, RC just means it comes in a PGA package! its the EC and LC letters that mean is does not have a FPU! See page 9 of this (http://www.freescale.com/files/shared/doc/selector_guide/SG1001.pdf?fpsp=1&WT_TYPE=Selector Guides&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&WT_ASSET=Documentation)

But the MC68060RC60 does have MMU and FPU see here (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/search.partparamdetail.framework?PART_NUMBER=MC68060RC60&buyNow=true)

[Chain]

On 4060 board it runs on 66, rock stable. But 75mhz is a problem, lot of programs quits with 8000 0014 or similar error.

[meckert]

I just got my Blizzard back from Per-Gunnar a couple of days ago. I've got xc68060rc60 fitted now. I've tried it at 80 MHz - works for about 5 minutes without the simm and than hangs . At 66 MHz - works for about 15 minutes than hangs. At 64 MHz works ok, but only if i keep my Infinitiv case open. With the case closed it heats up and starts to hang up after approx. 45 minutes.

And I have both radiator and a fan on the 060.

Still gotta test it with 60 MHz crystal.