WHDLoad and HD Install option

[Another World]

Why exists WHDLoad also for games which already have the HD install option ?

[killergorilla]

Just because a game has a HD install option, doesn't meant it'll run well on different machines :)

A lot of games only work on the machine they were designed for (A500 or A1200, not both).

Plus, some installs fix bugs in the code, add trainer options, add 'quit to workbench' functionality...

[TheCyberDruid]

Why exists WHDLoad also for games which already have the HD install option ?

Because WHDLoad fixes the game to work on all CPU, RAM and graphics modes (well at least it should ;)). So even if a game has a HD installer, but that wont work on certain machines a WHDLoad patch is made :)

[musashi5150]

And remove the protection :D:great

[killergorilla]

Ah yes, and the protection, forgot about that one. :D

Oh and by the way... I BEAT YOU TCD!

[TheCyberDruid]

Ah yes, and the protection, forgot about that one. :D

Oh and by the way... I BEAT YOU TCD!

Forgot about that one too ;)

@KG
Hehe, yep you did :great :D

[NewDeli]

Actually, I find it interesting to try to install games which have an installer. I am convinced not so many people have actually tried to do so.
I noticed there's a lower number of WHf'ied games among them, all things equal.

Some installers work well (with a quit option and such) & some games can even be copied from the floppy to the HD (I uploaded a few such games on my web site, if you wanna check'em out), but the whole idea of installing games to the HD took off rather slowly on the classic Amiga.

If you're interested in the history of WHDload project, you might want to check JOTD's early work on JST (http://jffabre.free.fr/amiga/patches.html).

To me, WHDload is not a perfect solution to games long-time floppy dependency & ADF distribution anarchy, but it is definitely a valiant effort in the right direction.

[TheCyberDruid]

To me, WHDload is not a perfect solution to games long-time floppy dependency & ADF distribution anarchy, but it is definitely a valiant effort in the right direction.

So maybe you want to tell us what you think is wrong with WHDLoad then.

[NewDeli]

Not sure our friend Another World will need to continue reading from this point, considering his remarks, anyway :

Bunch of old slaves barely updated, too few active Patchers, some games nearly impossible to patch... Not anything we aren't aware of, by far.

Why not ask the people who know about WHDload, but still continue to use ADFs extensively :D .

[TheCyberDruid]

And you think a different solution will change the situation with HD installs? I think people like Hungry Horace and BippyM are the solution for most of the problems ;) More patchers = more and better updated WHDLoad slaves.
The point about ADF's is for those who use emulation and can use higher floppy speeds and the warp mode. Try that with a real Amiga :D So there is no viable other option for someone who wants to use older games on his A1200/A4000 or even a PPC enhanced Amiga.
Why don't you become a patcher and help improving the situation? ;)

[Another World]

Not sure our friend Another World will need to continue reading from this point, considering his remarks, anyway :

Bunch of old slaves barely updated, too few active Patchers, some games nearly impossible to patch... Not anything we aren't aware of, by far.

Why not ask the people who know about WHDload, but still continue to use ADFs extensively :D .

Not only i still follow this thread, but now it's much more interesting ! :great

I add

Personally i never used WHDLoad and the reason is very simple:
the only advantage that i SEE in this project is for games
that are really BORING to use with floppies.

So the number is strictly limited to all games,
perhaps i could say adventures, that request to change disk
too much times (Beneath A Steel Sky is impossible to play, at least the
cracked version) and need to load the same data more and more time

But for the rest, waiting a while the normal loading is
not only no problem at all but also much more ORIGINAL :agree

WHDLOAD games have protection removed ....
yes but this is still a problem
only because there aren't the manual scans wich ....
coul be done by a lot of people i think own original games
(this could be really a new PROJECT of EAB)
- furthermore not for all games they are needed -

[Retro-Nerd]

WHDLoad is the only reason why i bought an A1200 again. :)

1. no disk swapping/using real disks
2. no more crappy cracks with checksum errors, graphic glitches etc.
3. fast loading times
4. saving hiscores to HD, also for games which lacks this feature
5. removed copy protections
6. custom fixes, for original games with bugs
7. comfortable and WORKING install scripts
8. support for second joy button, i.e. for jumping
9. cheat support via Custom tooltype
10. Quit key with a clean exit to Amiga OS

and more

[NewDeli]

there is no viable option for someone who wants to use older games on his A1200/A4000 or even a PPC enhanced Amiga

Sure, I wouldn't buy an expensive A1200/A4000 or a PPC enhanced Amiga exclusively to be playing old games, but from I 've been told UAE can be used on these too without too much hassle, for the most hardware dependant games.

Emulation is both vast and limited in scope. I get to learn about the strenghs & limitations of WHDload, WinUAE, and I feel it's part of the fun too. I have my PC for eye-candy, jaw-dropping 3D games & MAME for instant arcade enjoyment, so I don't consider myself a hardcore Amiga games fan.

Some people use their Amiga to play fps and such, good for them, I tend to think the scene died in the mid 90s, at least the scene in which I was highly interested in. So I let people brag about how fast Quake runs on an Amiga and how cool this 2001 PC demo looks. It might be enjoyable, challenging, useful to the community, I am simply not into it.

As you know, I don't subscribe to the idea of WHDload going to real Amiga onwers & ADFs going to emulation freaks. Amiga owners whom I talked with are really centered on the beauty of their Operating System, I was rather despised to notice they don't seem to care much for PC emulation (except maybe the Amiga Forever project) & the old glory.


@Another world : Well, WHDload project can't be limited to reducing floppy swapping duties inmho, but I agree it's one of its advantages. Once you setup AmigaOS v3.9, you tend to appreciate the ability to load games upon a click on an (impressing :bowdown :laughing ) icon. Then you can report bugs to their respective authors, I feel that's a way of contributing too.

Also, when loading ADFs one should be careful not to load the beefed-up WinUAE configs, that means slow access times, low res, quitting to Windows and not to AmigaOS...

Last but not least, WHdload gives people a chance to examine a game in depth. Only the coders themselves and the most talented crackers had such a direct access to the raw features of a game.

[TheCyberDruid]

Nice dodge there Deleauvive :agree You certainly missed the point I was trying to make. However good to see you at least told us what you think about it ;)

[Galahad/FLT]

Not sure our friend Another World will need to continue reading from this point, considering his remarks, anyway :

Bunch of old slaves barely updated, too few active Patchers, some games nearly impossible to patch... Not anything we aren't aware of, by far.

Why not ask the people who know about WHDload, but still continue to use ADFs extensively :D .

Which games in your estimation are 'nearly impossible' to patch? All the tricky ones thus far have been done.

The reason why a 'bunch of old slaves are barely updated' is because there is no call for them to be updated, or they don't need updating because they still work, or the problems are not critical that they need an immediate update.

ADF's extensive use is pretty much exclusive to WinUAE as lots of ADF's simply will not run on a modified/updated Amiga.

I also point out to you, that we don't get paid for the work we do patching, we do it because we can and want to.

I will say this Deleauvive, since you've come onto EAB, I find you arrogant, incredibly annoying and basically full of shit!

Most of your posts are simply inaccurate and quite a chore to wade through, i'm sure you have your fans on here, alas, I will not be one of them.

[gklinger]

WHDLoad is the only reason why i bought an A1200 again. :)
Same here. :great

[EreWeGo]

WHDLoad is the only reason why i bought an A1200 again. :)

...and me! I had an old Amiga 500, but half my disks were dying. When I stumbled across WHDLoad, and the whole concept of "easily" being able to transfer files fom PC to Amiga, and to use a CF card as a hard drive etc, I was sold. I wouldn't have bothered if not for WHDLoad...
:)

[osiris37]

Wow, Deleauvive, that was pretty hard hitting, however, as it is your opinion you are welcome to it, I for one, and I'm sure the majority of people who use this site, are full of praise for the guys who continue to develop WHDload, after all they do it for free, and for the benefit of the whole amiga scene, without people who continue to develop projects like this the Amiga would have been dead for decades, I think it petty thoughtless to Dis a project just because you have no use for it.

[Another World]

1. no disk swapping/using real disks
2. no more crappy cracks with checksum errors, graphic glitches etc.
3. fast loading times
4. saving hiscores to HD, also for games which lacks this feature
5. removed copy protections
6. custom fixes, for original games with bugs
7. comfortable and WORKING install scripts
8. support for second joy button, i.e. for jumping
9. cheat support via Custom tooltype
10. Quit key with a clean exit to Amiga OS

Well, first of all great respect for all people working at WHDLoad :bowdown

My personal opinion is not to be read VS WHDLoad, i want to be clear about this

But returning to this list of benefits (second point is about cracked
games, while i was talking about original games)
as you can see it's a whole of little advantages, nothing more than that

So i repeat i can play normally games like
Brian The Lion, Superfrog, Lemmings, etc. etc.
with no problems using original floppies

Instead in adventure games, for example, the benefits of using HD is quite obvious

Simply this :agree

P.S. The point number six is really interesting, some practice example ? :nervous

[osiris37]

another advantage is also this, if we can call it no.11?

11. Helps create more stable Ram installed states on handheld emulators (PSPUAE :D) where memory is at a premium - saves disk swapping here too!

[Marcuz]

12. beacause not all the people using WHDload has an amiga, but almost everybody has a PC, and in this case, a tidy emulation through it on a stable platform like ClassicWB may be sometimes preferable than messing with thousand configurations, or DATS or frontends.

13. hacking! let's look at what CFOU! did on EoB...

[NewDeli]

@Another World :
You're telling us you're perfectly happy with the widely available cracked games & have no real need for WHDload since you're not an Adventurer ?
Sorry to say It sounds slightly short-sighted to me.

As for the missing scanned manuals, please notice the presence of typed manuals. The purpose of WHDload is not to offer replacement docs (http://www.replacementdocs.com). I was looking for more info on WHDfy'ed games like you (admittedly, the ReadMes are pretty generic), that's when I turned to Gamebase Amiga...


@ Galahad :
So I am arrogant ? Look who's talking :lol .
A few people here obviously continue to offer their help even though they don't agree with everything I wrote :) .
Although not much can be done without it ultimately, money is not the issue, but good will, curiosity & I dare to say dedication.


@TCD :
You like to draw conclusions, don't you :p ?... Did I follow Another World on the sloppy ground of "let's use the provided HD installer if it does the trick" :rolleyes ? I don't think so !

Consistency (see above), licensing restrictions, transparency (semi-retired Patchers, who are they really :confused ?)... There IS room for improvement. Can you enumerate a few reasons not to (gently) bug Bert about 'em ?

Come on ! It is not coming down to individual Patchers, who obviously do their best... Plus, they're fully able to despise one another without any user intervention :laughing .

[TheCyberDruid]

Actually, I find it interesting to try to install games which have an installer. I am convinced not so many people have actually tried to do so.
I noticed there's a lower number of WHf'ied games among them, all things equal.

Some installers work well (with a quit option and such) & some games can even be copied from the floppy to the HD (I uploaded a few such games on my web site, if you wanna check'em out), but the whole idea of installing games to the HD took off rather slowly on the classic Amiga.

@TCD :
You like to draw conclusions, don't you :p ?... Did I follow Another World on the sloppy ground of "let's use the provided HD installer if it does the trick" :rolleyes ? I don't think so !

Well I do think so :rolleyes You dodge answers and revert things you said before.

To me, WHDload is not a perfect solution to games long-time floppy dependency & ADF distribution anarchy, but it is definitely a valiant effort in the right direction.

Consistency (see above), licensing restrictions, transparency (semi-retired Patchers, who are they really :confused ?)... There IS room for improvement. Can you enumerate a few reasons not to (gently) bug Bert about 'em ?

Come on ! It is not coming down to individual Patchers, who obviously do their best... Plus, they're fully able to despise one another without any user intervention :laughing .

You didn't talk about 'room for improvement', but about 'is not a perfect solution'. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding, but for me the second means that there is a general fault in how it is done. Well guess now I know what you meant in the first place... I think...

Oh and btw : I would be careful to say that a WHDLoad patcher doesn't have 'something tangible to offer' if I were you. To be honest I would really say it's the other way around ;)

[musashi5150]

I've been trying to follow this thread, but I'm just getting lost in "words" ;)

Deleauvive, what is it that you are trying to say? What could be improved with WHDLoad? Can you explain more what would make an ideal solution for you?

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid but I've found your previous posts difficult to understand.

[TheCyberDruid]

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid but I've found your previous posts difficult to understand.

Don't worry musashi, you're not alone ;)

[Galahad/FLT]

@Another World :
You're telling us you're perfectly happy with the widely available cracked games & have no real need for WHDload since you're not an Adventurer ?
Sorry to say It sounds slightly short-sighted to me. By the way, does the advocacy of WHDload "small advantages" has any impact on the way you deal with your games ?

As for the missing scanned manuals, please notice the presence of typed manuals. The purpose of WHDload is not to offer replacement docs (http://www.replacementdocs.com). I was looking for more info on WHDfy'ed games like you (admittedly, the ReadMes are pretty generic), that's when I turned to Gamebase Amiga...


@ Galahad :
So I am arrogant ? Look who's talking :lol . Seriously, do you expect people to follow your lead, if you don't have something tangible to offer ? That's one of the things I learned when building netcomet.info through the years. Fans may come & go, real supporters stay whatever the trouble you're into or the acclaim you're receiving :great.

A few people here obviously continue to offer their help even though they don't agree with everything I wrote :) .
Although not much can be done without it ultimately, money is not the issue, but good will, curiosity & I dare to say dedication.


@TCD :
You like to draw conclusions, don't you :p ?... Did I follow Another World on the sloppy ground of "let's use the provided HD installer if it does the trick" :rolleyes ? I don't think so !

Consistency (see above), licensing restrictions, transparency (semi-retired Patchers, who are they really :confused ?)... There IS room for improvement. Can you enumerate a few reasons not to (gently) bug Bert about 'em ?

Come on ! It is not coming down to individual Patchers, who obviously do their best... Plus, they're fully able to despise one another without any user intervention :laughing .


Instead of trying to be a smart arse, why not write sentences that actually mean something? Most of this post of yours is non-sensical. Sure you've written sentences, but overall, they just don't mean anything.

Your last paragraph? What the hell does that mean? We despise one another????? where the fuck did that come from??????

"Semi retired patchers, who are they"?????

If you want arrogance, I suggest you direct your attention to your post history.

And as for others not 'following my lead', alas, you're a little behind the times there fella, it would appear in various correspondance with others, that I am indeed following them in their views of you.

[NewDeli]

@TCD : "Something tangible to offer" would be taking a request to WHDfy a game from me, even though the man doesn't agree with what I wrote or the way I feel about WHDload, GBA and so on.

Obviously he won't consider those requests, solely on his personal dislike of what he perceives as "wrong" opinions, that's something a real pro would never allow himself to do.


@ Galahad : I simply made allusions in my previous posts, and they should be sufficient for the people concerned to make their opinion, and separate the truth from the bs.

I can name problematic games to WHD'fy, quote Patchers controversial despising of one another, stress out the inequities of the WHDload lisence, tell the relative deception of people facing slaves not being updated in a loooooong time...

But I won't open these Pandora boxes publicly.
I do not intend to go into details since no one appointed me to do so, so I would suggest either take it for granted or leave it, or even better make some research on these issues.

Semi-retired Patchers are a mystery to me, because they seem to update patches in the shadows of active Patchers, but I didn't say I wasn't interested in mysteries ;) .

[Marcuz]

this don't have sense...

anybody with a bit of understanding or will to learn the coding stuff can do whdload patches (and i know this is a generalization).
but patchers, if a word as such exists and qualifies the people who write the installs, are not doing that as a job nor are getting paid to do it.

why the heck should they act like a customer service???

moreover, the reason why one game gets different (in quantity and in quality) interest from another game, that has nothing to do with the people requesting for it.

if a game is considered crap, or it requires no particular feat to write the install or it does require insane amount of time to make it work, too much for the crappyness of gameplay, or maybe it can already be installed, well, while it may not find anybody willing to write for it, there's surely not any rule that says it should be not ever written...

to ask is perfectly legit, to answer is pure courtesy

[NewDeli]

Well I do think so :rolleyes

When reporting on a game you want WHD'fied, it is advisable to try a few things first, using the provided installer being one of these things. I just went a bit further on the road by repacking those HD installed games and uploading them onto my web site.

It doesn't mean the games doesn't need a WHDload. I simply consider it some sort of temporary relief, especially if the game is long forgotten. Nothing replaces a close examination of the game by a Patcher, except may be a PC remake !


You didn't talk about 'room for improvement', but about 'is not a perfect solution'. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding,

Alas, it is.
Ask me next time you're not sure about something :agree .

[musashi5150]

why not write sentences that actually mean something? Most of this post of yours is non-sensical. Sure you've written sentences, but overall, they just don't mean anything
:great Indeed.

I'm not a rude or ignorant person, but I'm sorry I just don't understand really anything of what you've written. If you are looking for a "magical" solution for Amiga games then I guess you are out of luck. But I would say the combined efforts of the WHDLoad, SPS & TOSEC teams are as good as it's going to get. And I for one am very happy they exist. We are certainly very lucky when compared with other platforms.

Everyone has their own preferences: I like to write ADFs back to floppy and use them on real Amigas. I like to use WHDLoad for games that really need HD installs or a powerful Amiga. I like using WinUAE as it's a wonderful alternative to real hardware and a nice debugging tool.

I don't ever imagine all these things are perfect. We don't live in a perfect world and as it stands they are close enough for the majority of people.

[NewDeli]

@Another World :
You're telling us you're perfectly happy with the widely available cracked games & have no real need for WHDload since you're not an Adventurer ?
Sorry to say It sounds slightly short-sighted to me. By the way, does the advocacy of WHDload "small advantages" has any impact on the way you deal with your games ?

As for the missing scanned manuals, please notice the presence of typed manuals. The purpose of WHDload is not to offer replacement docs (http://www.replacementdocs.com). I was looking for more info on WHDfy'ed games like you (admittedly, the ReadMes are pretty generic), that's when I turned to Gamebase Amiga...

Do I need to explain this part ? As Another World enumerates his reasons NOT to be using WHDload, I replied that WHDload can't be limited to play multiple-floppies games.

I also point out that some WHDload packages contain typed manuals, which can be of some help, even though they're not as nice as scanned ones.


@ Galahad :
So I am arrogant ? Look who's talking :lol . Seriously, do you expect people to follow your lead, if you don't have something tangible to offer ?


Well, since Galahad answered this part. I assume at least him got it right !




A few people here obviously continue to offer their help even though they don't agree with everything I wrote :) .

Belgarath offered his help & answers my posts without any sense of retaliation. Many kudos to him :) .



Although not much can be done without it ultimately, money is not the issue, but good will, curiosity & I dare to say dedication.


You're insisting on Patchers not receiving direct paiements. That's right, but WHDload doesn't gives its full potential if not registered. Also, some Patchers receive donations from registered users & I assume have access to yummy secret resources ;) .

By the way, I wouldn't prefer the Patchers I target my requests towards to decline donations. I think it's quite fair that they receive some treatment for their efforts.

[Marcuz]

*** must ... abstain... to comment... ***

[TheCyberDruid]

*** must ... abstain... to comment... ***

:lol I think it's all quite clear now and Another World's initial question is kind of answered now ;)

[girv]

I also point out to you, that we don't get paid for the work we do patching, we do it because we can and want to.

+1

As for the rest of the thread, I have no idea what's going on :crazy :laughing

[musashi5150]

As for the rest of the thread, I have no idea what's going on :crazy :laughing

I'm glad I'm not the only one girv :)

[StingRay]

I'm glad I'm not the only one girv :)

Same here :)

[Galahad/FLT]

It all went a bit 'Pete Tong' ages ago, and then Deleavive then replied to himself, and quoted himself brought on a whole new surrealness!

[gklinger]

By the way, I wouldn't prefer the Patchers I target my requests towards to decline donations. I think it's quite fair that they receive some treatment for their efforts.
Do you? You seemed very against it when I raised the question of offering honorariums. You told me that you prefer to befriend pathchers so that you can manipulate them into writing slaves at your request and if someone were to offer bounties that would make it more difficult for you to get them to do your bidding.

[Marcuz]

naaaaaa please... close this thread, it's 80 percent poor comedy...

[Eclipse]

F1GP,
It has it's own HD installer and I still have the original boxed game.
I use WHDLoad however as it seems to be quicker loading. Doesn't WHDLoad save as much into memory as it can?

Plus as has been mentioned, quite a lot of games would never have ran on my A1200 so WHDLoad is a godsend.

[TheCyberDruid]

Doesn't WHDLoad save as much into memory as it can?

Yup, it does and thus is (a bit) faster than games loading from the HD (given you have enough memory of course ;)).