WHDload & Amiga-600 with 1MB expansion ?!?

[Overdoc]

Ok, I wanted to ask this for a long time:

Does it make sense to install a harddisk with WHDload games on an Amiga-600 with 1MB expansion in the trapdoor (in other words, an A-600 with 2MB chipram) ?
Or does WHDload require more ram or other ram (fastram ? slowram?)

If yes, which easy possibilities do I have to get that additional ram ? I don't think there are any pcmcia ram expansions easy to get, right ?

Thanx for your help guys !

[Visper]

Does it make sense to install a harddisk with WHDload games on an Amiga-600 with 1MB expansion in the trapdoor (in other words, an A-600 with 2MB chipram) ?
Or does WHDload require more ram or other ram (fastram ? slowram?)

According to my experience, there are lots of WHDLoad games that need more than 2MB chipram, so a expansion is a must.

If yes, which easy possibilities do I have to get that additional ram ? I don't think there are any pcmcia ram expansions easy to get, right ?

You can find them on ebay. This (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/rumminege_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ) seller, for example, sells a 2MB PCMCIA card every week (I got mine from him for 15£)

You can also try the russian (http://amigasc.nm.ru/) 8MB memory expansion (EAB (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=33671) thread here) or wait for rkauer's accelerator (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=36596)

[alexh]

You'd be surprised how little RAM you need to get some WHDload games working. 1Mbyte is kinda on the small side. I found that 2Mbytes was good enough for a lot of games, especially with an ultra slim startup sequence.

[gklinger]

You'd be surprised how little RAM you need to get some WHDload games working.
What about CPU? I've read so many references to how WHDLoad is better with an accelerator but nobody ever seems willing or able to say exactly why. Since most games are designed to run on a 68000, why would a faster CPU be of benefit?

[Visper]

I found that 2Mbytes was good enough for a lot of games, especially with an ultra slim startup sequence.

From the games I tested and remember, Jaguar XJ220, Premiere, Prince of Persia, Shadow of the Beast III and so on needed more than 2MB.

[Cammy]

Just about any games (as long as it's not AGA) on those CD32 WHDLoad compilation discs (CD32-200, CD32-444...) should work on a 2MB A600, but you'd have to make your own selector menu or run them from AmigaDOS (I think AGS is AGA only). These games usually need to be run with their own startup-sequence though, which AGS copies into RAD:, so if you could write your own scripts from Workbench that copies a startup-sequence for each game into RAD:, reboots, then runs the game.

[Overdoc]

Well, my A-600 currently has 2MB chip (1MB onboard and 1MB in the trapdoor).
So, I can assume all WHDload version of the games on the CD-32 cmpilation cds don't need more than 2MB, right ? But I cannot simply copy them to hd because the startups are missing, right ?
hmm, that looks like a lot of work, but couldn't I simply take KG's WHDload versions of these games instead ? I don't need any menu, staring them from amidos is more than ok for me :)

also, do any trapdoor expansion with more than 1MB exist ? I don't think so because trapdoor mem is always chipmem, and it cannot exceed 2MB in total because of the 8375 Agnus, right ?

[alexh]

What about CPU? I've read so many references to how WHDLoad is better with an accelerator but nobody ever seems willing or able to say exactly why. Since most games are designed to run on a 68000, why would a faster CPU be of benefit?
In some places the WHDload dudes have put in extra code to wait for amiga chipset to complete. With 020+ this is fine because without them they would have run off and done the next thing before it was finished. However in some games, adding this extra code, on a 68000, slows it down too much.

I've only seen it on one or two titles, ususally only on the intro screen where they are using all the CPU horsepower to make a pretty attract screen.

From the games I tested and remember, Jaguar XJ220, Premiere, Prince of Persia, Shadow of the Beast III and so on needed more than 2MB.
What do you mean "needed"?. Jaguar XJ220, Premiere and PoP work fine with 2MB. SoTB is a multi-disk game and so cannot have the pre-load tool-type.

do any trapdoor expansion with more than 1MB exist ?
No.

[StingRay]

What about CPU? I've read so many references to how WHDLoad is better with an accelerator but nobody ever seems willing or able to say exactly why. Since most games are designed to run on a 68000, why would a faster CPU be of benefit?

Often the 68000 games/demos use SMC (self-modifying code) and/or don't wait for the blitter to finish. This needs to be fixed for 020+ CPU's and thus requires extra code which often will slow down the demo/game.

[musashi5150]

But of course some forward thinking WHDLoad installers have made parts of the patching optional with a CUSTOM tooltype to keep the best possible speed on 68000 systems.

No idea who that was though... :D

[Visper]

What do you mean "needed"?. Jaguar XJ220, Premiere and PoP work fine with 2MB. SoTB is a multi-disk game and so cannot have the pre-load tool-type.

I tested again the games (latest version from KillerGorilla's packs and latest WHDLoad) with WinUAE and on my A600 and only Pop worked (strange because I clearly remember it didn't work before). Jaguar XJ220 and Premiere (without preload, of course) and even with a ultra slim startup-sequence didn't work.

I would like to know how you got them working.

[StingRay]

But of course some forward thinking WHDLoad installers have made parts of the patching optional with a CUSTOM tooltype to keep the best possible speed on 68000 systems.

No idea who that was though... :D

I have no idea either :P

[Retro-Nerd]

I would like to know how you got them working

Maybe with Fakemem.

http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/Fakemem

Mmh, not really.

When run, fakemem should reset your machine and allocate 512K of available
memory as chip RAM, converting the remaining RAM to fast.
Works fine on A1200

[alexh]

Jaguar XJ220 and Premiere (without preload, of course) and even with a ultra slim startup-sequence didn't work. I would like to know how you got them working.
My games startup also includes add36k (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/add36k) and removes all buffers (add buffers -999) on DF0: and DH0:

Chances are that I am using the original WHDload slaves and not the most recent version of WHDload.

I would also check your tool types for each slave.

[Visper]

My games startup also includes add36k (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/add36k) and removes all buffers (add buffers -999) on DF0: and DH0:

With those tips, Premiere now shows the intro but hangs after it and Jaguar XJ220 seems to load but very very slowly.

In my opinion, isn't worth the hassle and with a 2MB SRAM card I don't have to worry about memory issues anymore.

[alexh]

Jaguar XJ220 seems to load but very very slowly
I used to get this symptom on some WHDload games which were too big to pre-load... I am 50% sure I was able to work around it.

Thinking cap on.

NoResInt tooltype?

[Wepl]

What about CPU? I've read so many references to how WHDLoad is better with an accelerator but nobody ever seems willing or able to say exactly why. Since most games are designed to run on a 68000, why would a faster CPU be of benefit?
several installs have no working quitkey on a 68000 because they assume the automatic quitkey feature by WHDLoad itself which is only available on a 68010+

[Wepl]

Often the 68000 games/demos use SMC (self-modifying code) and/or don't wait for the blitter to finish. This needs to be fixed for 020+ CPU's and thus requires extra code which often will slow down the demo/game.
Although the present cpu can be checked by the slave and therefore it is possible to avoid these patches on a 68000 :)

[musashi5150]

But there is the case of fast 68000 boards - like Adspeed or Supra28. Although the SMC might not matter so much the blitter waits could be important.

[Wepl]

Hmm, yes correct. In case of a very fast 68000 this can be unreliable.
My approach would be that the install should work on every setup without setting any Tooltypes/options.
The best is then maybe a automation via the cpu detection, with the possebilty to overwrite this with a Custom option.

[gklinger]

several installs have no working quitkey on a 68000 because they assume the automatic quitkey feature by WHDLoad itself which is only available on a 68010+
Whoa, you lost me there. :confused

[musashi5150]

Whoa, you lost me there. :confused
Generally for a quitkey to work on 68000 the slave-writer must insert it manually into the code. Any other (more advanced) processor doesn't need this because WHDLoad can monitor the keypresses itself.

Some slaves don't have this 68000 quitkey support built in and so can't be quit without resetting the computer.

[StingRay]

Although the present cpu can be checked by the slave and therefore it is possible to avoid these patches on a 68000 :)

I do exactly (http://www.whdload.de/demos/Animators_MetalMelissa.html) that :) I check the CPU and disable the SMC patches automatically on 68000. :) But just in case someone wants to play around a bit I also allow the SMC patches to be disabled on CPU's >68000 with a CUSTOM tooltype. :)

[Overdoc]

Ok, guys, it has been a long time, but I now got a nice hd for my Amiga-600 (2MB chipram, no fastram) and now I am thinking about the best way how I could get most whdload games working there, but I would need some help....

Currently I just have the hd perpared and formatted for the Amiga, but what next ?
If I install complete workbench 2.0 or 2.1 and whdload, then I suppose almost no whd games would run because the wb and whdload will take up too much ram, right ?

So, what would be the best option ? I don't need a full wb on the hd, just a small startup with Amigados prompt and only the important files from whdload so that I can simply start the games by typing in their name would be fine for me. :)

Could anyone give me a little step by step guide ?
Many thanx !!!

[musashi5150]

I got lucky and found a 4MB PCMCIA RAM card for my A600. It sticks out the side and is a bit ugly - but it works ok. I think the 2MB SRAM cards aren't too hard to come by?

[Supamax]

I got lucky and found a 4MB PCMCIA RAM card for my A600. It sticks out the side and is a bit ugly - but it works ok. I think the 2MB SRAM cards aren't too hard to come by?

Where in h*ll did you find it?? :scream

[killergorilla]

KGLoad might be helpful for you, although I need to finish the next beta and update my pages on here!

Ok, guys, it has been a long time, but I now got a nice hd for my Amiga-600 (2MB chipram, no fastram) and now I am thinking about the best way how I could get most whdload games working there, but I would need some help....

Currently I just have the hd perpared and formatted for the Amiga, but what next ?
If I install complete workbench 2.0 or 2.1 and whdload, then I suppose almost no whd games would run because the wb and whdload will take up too much ram, right ?

So, what would be the best option ? I don't need a full wb on the hd, just a small startup with Amigados prompt and only the important files from whdload so that I can simply start the games by typing in their name would be fine for me. :)

Could anyone give me a little step by step guide ?
Many thanx !!!

[musashi5150]

Where in h*ll did you find it?? :scream
I got it on eBay. I agree the 4MB ones are a little more special, but as I said the 2MB ones are easy enough to find.

Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130280108878

[Supamax]

I got it on eBay. I agree the 4MB ones are a little more special, but as I said the 2MB ones are easy enough to find.

Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130280108878

Yes, I know this seller :)
You didn't answer: where in the h**l did you find the 4MB oneee??? :scream:scream:scream
:crying

[musashi5150]

Yes, I know this seller :)
You didn't answer: where in the h**l did you find the 4MB oneee??? :scream:scream:scream
:crying

I did answer :)

I got it on eBay.

[cane]

Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130280108878

I bought one card from this seller two years ago, still works fine. Wonder from where he's got supply of them.

[alexh]

He probably works in the telecommunications business. These cards are used in a lot of PBX machines.

Or perhaps the photocopying business? These were used in a lot of older photocopiers and laser printers.

[Gordon]

the only game i have found that needs more than 2meg is swos