I just installed my new "Amiga". :)

[Kim_Lemon]

It's indeed several times faster than my real 060 Amiga. :)

Woohoo! :)

Btw, the link only works if you past it into a new browser window.
www.lemon64.com/mywb2.jpg

[Djay]

thx for the C64 games, btw ;)

[Kim_Lemon]

Originally posted by Djay
thx for the C64 games, btw ;)

You're welcome! :cool
Do you visit the Lemon board btw, I think I recognize your name.

[Djay]

i've leeched some stuff from your site, Big C64 fan you see, oh yeah and Amiga, never been on your forum, i might now thou!


what did you use to install Workbench? (AIAB, Amiga Forever etc..)?

[Kim_Lemon]

Originally posted by Djay

what did you use to install Workbench? (AIAB, Amiga Forever etc..)?

I bought Amiga Forever 5 and installed OS 3.5 on top of that. I perfer to have everything as clean as possible (AIAB is not clean imho) without having it hacked to bits, but I did install VisualPrefs and Magic Menu... and I'm actually thinking of giving Opus Magellan II a try.

[Djay]

Amiga Forever 5 and installed OS 3.5 on top of that
i installed my own Workbench, as it's the one i had on my REAL amiga!!!

although, i've got AIAB (never really use it though)

[Kim_Lemon]

I only wish I could afford a real kick ass amiga! :) Mine is a sloppy A1260 with a bigfoot (sloooow) hdd.

Anyway, I'm off to try out C64 emulation inside the amiga emulation... :)

[Minuous]

Huh? Your WinUAE setup is several times faster than a true '060 Amiga??!! What are you running it on, a 2Ghz Wintel box???

I get barely A500 speed on my P233, that's with sound turned off too.

By the way thanx for your C64 site, I've been linking to it for ages! :-)

[Drake1009]

I'm getting normal speeds (as long as no scrolling is involved) on my P4 1.7Ghz machine. Don't know if I tried to emulate an 060 if it'd be faster.

I too have visited your site quite a number of times. Quite a good database of C64 data on that site. Thumbs up:great

[oldpx]

With properly configured JIT, it is possible to have a very fast system. My system is 14 times faster than a A4000 with 040 and 491 times faster than an A500/A600 but I still prefer the real thing :cool

I have a simple 800mhz Athlon.

[Bloodwych]

This is my 100th post so please forgive me as I’m going to rabbit on a bit (feels good to join the treble figure club although it’s taken me long enough :disgusted ). Next stop the quad-club (1000+) in 2010 perhaps.

JIT enabled WinUAE can really push some numbers. Here is a shot from my Duron 800@950, so goodness knows what an Athlon XP 1.6GHz+ will do:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/deanodarlo/Turbo1200.jpg

20.59 times faster than an 040 25! Pushing nearly 400 MIPS! :shocked

Sysinfo thinks I've got a 400Mhz 040 fitted which can't be bad. Having such a fast Amiga system (all be it emulated) can have some real benefits if you have your PC and Amiga networked.

For example:

I rendered ALL 74 of the liberation wall maps in a couple of minutes on the 400Mhz 040!!!!!!!!!! I then copied the directory over to my real amiga for play. Total time including copying directory approx. 8 minutes.

Anyone who owns this game can tell you how long this normally takes on a real amiga - many many hours, especially on my A1200 020 14Mhz.

Like Burseg said above however, you "can't beat the real thing" (Copyright 2001 Akira) - even if my real 1200 is pushing only 2.5 MIPS it still feels better running software on it. :D

Hey Burseg, guess you didn't bother o/cing. Don't blame you, it can be a real hassle! Have you tried the new WinUAE? The above is 0.8.17R3, the 0.8.21R2 runs MUCH slower (4X) and the whole WB is sluggish as are demos such as "RiverHorse".

DJay, I'm with you man!!!! I've got AIAB (congrats James on a job well done) but never use it as it doesn't feel like the Amiga I know and love.

Instead I've got a setup using WB 3.1 and a few extra add-ons - it was copied across a parallel cable from my real Amiga so it's an exact replica apart from the extra RAM and super CPU. Normally I'll run full-screen scanlines, but for the sake of space here is a glimpse in normal mode:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/deanodarlo/WBreal.jpg

Notice the wb essentials:

noclick - drive silencer, not needed on an emulated Amiga but what the hell it's an exact copy right?

Magic WB Hack - needs no introduction.

Magic Menu - as above.

Tools Daemon - Adds command lines/programs to your menus. VERY useful when linked with magic menu. Allows you to click on an icon and run multiview or ED for example. Or run your favourite archiver with a couple of right clicks.

SmartWB - speeds up screen updates.

TTManager - allows you to change icons properties very efficiently. Aother essential.

Icon image - drag and drop update of icons (.info files)

I had a few other hacks running (eg clicktofront), but they caused problems. The above are all fine, except magic menu causes DP-V screen corruption.

In fact I’m off to start another thread where people can suggest WB add-ons from Aminet. It would be great for newbies to read and get a decent WB up and running.

[oldpx]

I just don't feel safe when overclocked Bloodwych. But your help on this subject is well appreciated. :)

[Kim_Lemon]

Originally posted by Minuous
Huh? Your WinUAE setup is several times faster than a true '060 Amiga??!! What are you running it on, a 2Ghz Wintel box??? :-)

I'm running on an AMD Athlon 1800+ with JIT emulation enabled, but ofcourse I perfer the real Amiga. :rolleyes

[Dastardly]

Id like to say thanks for the C64 games too. :)
GREAT site!!

[Minuous]

Hmm, this is interesting. I only have a P233 but I should be apparently be getting at least several times faster than an A4000, rather than crawling along (20 seconds to layout and draw a simple AmiDock dock, for example). I could do much more programming if my programs did not take 15 seconds to open their main window, etc...

I did try this JIT but it doesn't seem to work for me, I hear people saying how fast it is but I don't notice any increase? Perhaps someone should write something on how to set JIT up so it actually works.

Because when I tried it, it was so slow that I went back to using WinUAE 0.8.9. And, as I mentioned above, I get about A500 performance at best on that, so the performance of later WinUAEs is even worse on my system.

[Bloodwych]

Minuous, that processor seems a little borderline for the newer WinUAE versions, but JIT should still give you better performance than normal modes.

How much RAM do you have in your PC? You'll need memory for the Amiga AND 4 MB for the JIT cache. You may have been allocating too much memory for your system to handle or not giving JIT a cache at all.

Give me your PC specs and the following:

Workbench Version?
Chipset you use (AGA, ECS, OCS) in Workbench?
Amiga RAM normally used in WinUAE (chip + fast) ?

.....and I'll place a copy of a JIT enabled WinUAE 0.8.17R3 in the zone setup and ready to go. :)

[Minuous]

Originally posted by Bloodwych
How much RAM do you have in your PC? You'll need memory for the Amiga AND 4 MB for the JIT cache. You may have been allocating too much memory for your system to handle or not giving JIT a cache at all.

Give me your PC specs and the following:

Workbench Version?
Chipset you use (AGA, ECS, OCS) in Workbench?
Amiga RAM normally used in WinUAE (chip + fast) ?

.....and I'll place a copy of a JIT enabled WinUAE 0.8.17R3 in the zone setup and ready to go. :)

IBM-PC specs: Pentium 233, 64Mb, 800x600
WB Version: OS3.9 with both Boing Bags
AGA chipset
Amiga RAM: 2Mb chip + 8Mb fast.

[Akira]

Hey Kim! Welcome aboard!
though you should be using your 060, should be fast enough! :) I'm happy with my 030@50 man, it beats using the Crapulator

[Bloodwych]

Minuous, it's in the zone. Let us know how you got on. :)

[Minuous]

Thanx heaps Bloodwych! I will run SysInfo tonight on my current setup and on the setup you have sent, and post the results.

[Minuous]

OK, the results are in! Clearly WinUAE0.8.8.R9 is faster than 0.8.17R3...

Here's the SysInfo results for 0.8.17R3:

[Minuous]

And, for comparison, here's the results under 0.8.8R9:

[Bloodwych]

Minuous:

That's really strange, JIT WinUAE is MANY times faster than non-JIT on my system.

About your screen caps - I can't work out the readings given in sysinfo. :confused

The first one (817R3) shows a locked 7.09Mhz speed, as if you've selected "run A500 speed" in the CPU section and not "fastest possibe". :confused Selecting the former will limit the possible performance gain from running JIT.

Did you use the configeration "test" I'd provided with WinUAE8.17R3?

[andreas]

To put it bluntly: that's like comparing apples and oranges. ;)

0.8.17 R3 shows FPU = NONE, 0.8.8 R9 shows FPU = 68881!
:shocked

[Minuous]

Yes, it's set to "Fastest possible, but maintain chipset timing".

I agree about the FPU, but I don't believe in this case it makes a difference, as I'm not running anything that might use the FPU, and the dhrystones test being used as a benchmark is an integer test. I can switch off the FPU and retest but I doubt it will have much if any effect.

It is very strange that WinUAE is so slow and that JIT does not work :-( I wonder if I should submit a bug report to the new programmer of WinUAE, he will hopefully be more inclined to act than the previous programmer (BK). I've had this same problem with several versions of WinUAE and on two different computers.

[Bloodwych]

It seems WinUAE is very system/OS dependant - it throws up different results for everyone! :D

[turk182]

@burseg
my Athlon 500 has been running at 750+ for over a year now with little problems ..By the time it dies I will need a new AMD chip anyhow..It really does save you a few dollars/pounds/lira ;)
dont be afraid go for it!

@kim wow we are honoured welcome to 16bit power! ..;)
I like your site lots!...

[Toni Wilen]

It is very strange that WinUAE is so slow and that JIT does not work

Could you try following:

- create new configuration from scratch (delete default.uae first)
- disable/enable sound
- boot from non-modified workbench floppy or boot without startup-sequence (programs that disable CPU caches also disable JIT)
- try different display modes
- try different kickstart images (at least some A4000 kickstart images are not 100% compatible with UAE)

[Paul]

On my system 21r2 is much faster than 8.8r9 but not as fast as 17r3. Both results use the same config...68020+FPU, 4MB CHIP, 16MB FAST, 8MB RTG, Fastest possible, but maintain chipset, AGA, sound on 100% compatable, ks3.1.

This is 8.8r9 sysinfo results

[Paul]

And 21r2 with JIT

[Paul]

And 17r3 With JIT. The fastest:)

[Paul]

@Minuous

I see you only have 64Mb. I think you need a minimum of 128MB for JIT to work right due to the amount taken up by Windows.

[Bloodwych]

Originally posted by Bloodwych

How much RAM do you have in your PC? You'll need memory for the Amiga, program AND 4 MB for the JIT cache. You may have been allocating too much memory for your system to handle or not giving JIT a cache at all.



Paul, I was onto RAM as a possible reason (see above) but never thought WinUAE JIT required 128MB physical RAM - that's astronomical! :shocked

Oh well Minuous, time for e-bay and an inexpensive RAM upgrade. You should be able to get that machine up to 128MB for next to nothing. JIT is definitely worth it due to the manner you use WinUAE.

Paul, what system are you running to get those results? Looks like you've found similar ratios to me across the different versions.

[Paul]

Originally posted by Bloodwych
Paul, I was onto RAM as a possible reason (see above) but never thought WinUAE JIT required 128MB physical RAM - that's astronomical! :shocked

I have 1GB of RAM in my newest system and after boot up I have 735MB left free according to Ram Booster, so this shows how bad Windows is at managing ram, on Windows 98SE Anyway.

Paul, what system are you running to get those results? Looks like you've found similar ratios to me across the different versions.

Rest of my system specs.

1GHz AMD processor
80GB HD split into 2 40GB partitions.
32MB ATI 128 ultra Graphics card.
Soundblaster Live 5.1
CD-R/CD-RW 16x10x40x
4X DVD-ROM
1.44MB Floppy drive

[Bloodwych]

Hehe, not that I want to turn this into a pissing contest or anything but I've still got the SysInfo crown in terms of raw speed in AGA chipset mode.

Come on, beat my pesky little Duron 950, 256MB Crucial DDR, 8KHA+ KT266A, Matrox G200 and sblive! rig. :smoking

Paul, I know Windows uses a lot of physical RAM (mainly for Vcache) and Win 98SE doesn't have the best memory management (although better than 95).

It is designed to eat RAM though, as it's better put to free RAM to use as a dynamic vcache than not at all :). I was just surprised that 64MB+SWAP wasn't enough to enable JIT. Toni, please clarify! :)

[Minuous]

If WinUAE truly requires 128Mb RAM then this is a major flaw, nothing else I run needs such colossal amounts of memory...

Should I send a formal bug report to TW?

[Toni Wilen]

If WinUAE truly requires 128Mb RAM then this is a major flaw, nothing else I run needs such colossal amounts of memory...

No, it does not require 128Mb (if you don't set Amiga memory size to over 64Mb...), but because Windows internally requires at least 32Mb of memory to work properly. This leaves only about 30Mb (if you have 64Mb system) for WinUAE. Running WinUAE takes about 10Mb memory = you have only about max 20Mb for emulated Amiga's memory + JIT caches...

But this doesn't explain why JIT doesn't work on your system. It should work if you have enough swap space. Did you try my suggestions?

[Minuous]

I've tried most of those suggestions.

Regarding swap space, generally my C: partition is more or less full, occasionally it fills up. Although not very often and only when I have lots of apps open. But I have Windoze as the only thing on that 400Mb partition, I refuse to allocate more than 400Mb to an operating system :-) Especially one that is rather crap :-D

If JIT can't allocate its memory surely it would come up with a requester stating this? Since no such requester appears I would assume that it can find enough memory...