EAB Games League Ineligible Games

[Graham Humphrey]

I've decided to create this thread in light of the Turrican 2 incident in the voting for round 2 (notice how I cunningly wait until after the voting has ended before doing it as well ;) ).

What I'm going to do with this thread is to list the games that can't be played in the league. I'm not talking about the obvious ones such as adventures/RPGs and the like, I mean games that do have proper scoring systems and things that, on the face of it, may be suited to the competition but aren't, maybe due to bugs, or whatever.

I can't do this on my own, of course. If someone is unsure of whether a game should be eligible for voting, than post it here (together with the reason why) and I'll have a look at it. My decision (as I'm running this thing) is final on whether a game is eligible or not, though I will listen to other people's views on games. You don't have to wait until the voting starts before you post here; you can do it at any time.

This post will be updated regularly with games that are banned, and the reason why. Also games that have already been played will be listed here for convenience (obviously already-played games can't be chosen again).

Banned Games:

Agony: Infinite score leeching bug on first boss (up to 999,999 points)
Bubble Dizzy: Extra lives regenerate when player dies, meaning players can build up scores forever
Franko: Only a maximum score of 175 which is extremely easy to achieve
Lotus 2: Different scoring systems for different versions (eg the WHDLoad version has the scores halved for some reason)
Pinball Fantasies (Stones 'n' Bones): table bugged - i.e. random crashing, infinite balls, messed up scores
Rodland: Infinite score leeching on all the bosses can easily be used to fake the maximum available score

Games Already Played:

Season 1: Slam Tilt (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29903), Deluxe Galaga (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=30377), Apidya (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=30764), Turrican 2 (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=31197), Project-X (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=31572), Pang (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=31891), Super Hang-On (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32277), Leander (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32633), Skweek (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32978)

[mihcael]

How will you approach issues with infinite score leeching?

there is absolutely no way to tell when someone has cheated so i think to ban games where leeching is possible will not stop someone who wants to cheat

at lemon it has become a bit of an issue, but i think if everyone plays by the same rules it can be fair. these games were played in the last few rounds where leeching was possible (i believe) but most players refused the temptation!!

Rodland
Battle Squadron
Agony

Some people just don't get that its only a game and the competition is designed for a bit of fun!

And can someone tell me where Turrican 2 was banned at Lemon? i can't find it and have never questioned anybody for voting for it!

[Graham Humphrey]

To be fair, I'm more on about bugs and things like that really. I know it does rely on trust and I'm prepared to accept people's scores are genuine, I mean if you went around banning games that you can easily do things like infinite score leeching and stuff there probably wouldn't be many left.

The thing with Turrican 2 was I thought there wasn't a timer so it would be extremely easy to cheat if that was the case, obviously when you're told completely different things by different people you do get confused when you're not familiar with the game.

[turrican3]

no timer ?

[Graham Humphrey]

Yeah, I know that now. :)

I didn't know any better at the time. That was the point I was trying to make. That's why I started this thread to prevent that whole thing happening again.

But anyway, you live and learn, don't you? :)

[turrican3]

yes,
but i have one question:
how did you made to live without playing turrican 2 ?:confused :confused :confused :confused
This is one of the best amiga game:great :great :great

[Graham Humphrey]

:laughing

I don't know really. I played the original but I didn't like it very much. So I guess I've never been particularly keen on trying it. But I've got a feeling I'm going to have to soon if the next vote goes as I think it will. ;)

[turrican3]

:great :great good news turrican is back to the league.:D ;)
I'm sure you will enjoy it.:spin :spin

[Graham Humphrey]

Now the vote for Round 3 is over, it has been brought to my attention (I won't tell you his name, but his number's Bippy ;) ) that there could be a problem with Lotus 2.

I discussed this with him yesterday and said yeah, I think it should be banned, but I thought it only fair to let other people give their opinions on this first.

If anyone's interested in why, read this (http://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1626&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45) to find out.

Personally I think this game could be more trouble than its worth, which is disappointing because it is an ideal candidate for this type of competition, but if anyone can give me a convincing argument otherwise I may reconsider.

[Shoonay]

Use this (http://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1626&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) link, matey ;)

[Graham Humphrey]

Link fixed ;)

[Shoonay]

So, to sum up the problem...

Basically, every version (WHD/original/many crackz) has a different scoring system?

I know I did read this Lotus2 thread on LA back when it was played, but seem to remember a better argument to this whole "cheating *not* being cheating" thing.
Also, wasn't there something in the WHDLoad version of the game about how the scoring system was half cut to avoid overwriting the score? :/

[Graham Humphrey]

Basically, every version (WHD/original/many crackz) has a different scoring system?

That's how it appears.

Also, wasn't there something in the WHDLoad version of the game about how the scoring system was half cut to avoid overwriting the score? :/

Yeah, it's actually in the readme of the WHD install. Which probably goes a long way to explaining some of those apparently "odd" scores.

Does anyone know if the other Lotus games are affected by this, or is it just number 2?

[Shoonay]

Lotus 1 (http://whdload.de/games/LotusEspritTC.html) (doesn't save when not registered)
Lotus 2 (http://whdload.de/games/Lotus2.html) (didn't it suppose to say something about the scoring system? ;))
Lotus 3 (http://whdload.de/games/Lotus3.html) (doesn't save hiscores IIRC)

[Graham Humphrey]

Well I don't think not being able to save scores is much of a problem (doesn't really matter for this competition, as long as you've got a screenshot that's okay).

I would assume the other two Lotus games would be fine.

[Shoonay]

It is, to me - the only way I can post me screenie, after playing the game on a real A1200, is to boot the game again on WinUAE... :(

[Graham Humphrey]

Ah, then that is a bit of a problem.... why don't you play the game in WinUAE just for the competition then (there are loads of games which don't save highscores, which is crazy)? It's not ideal but it's the only way round it (short of taking a photo of the screen on your Amiga ;) )

[Shoonay]

I want's me real Amy!!! :crying

;)

[mailman]

Ah, then that is a bit of a problem.... why don't you play the game in WinUAE just for the competition then (there are loads of games which don't save highscores, which is crazy)? It's not ideal but it's the only way round it (short of taking a photo of the screen on your Amiga ;) )

I also play on real Amiga and just make a screenshot on WinUAE. I don't play games on WinUAE because it is really tricky to play with keyboard all those games you have learnt to play with joystick.

[Graham Humphrey]

I also play on real Amiga and just make a screenshot on WinUAE. I don't play games on WinUAE because it is really tricky to play with keyboard all those games you have learnt to play with joystick.

I do agree it can be difficult, but I went out and bought a joypad ;) (Though something like Super Stardust is a pig to control without a proper joystick) Certainly it can be very hard especially for games that maybe weren't really designed for keyboard use.

I must admit I feel slightly less "comfortable" playing on WinUAE than I do on an Amiga (if that makes sense?) but it's something I can cope with.

Obviously if we play a game that doesn't save highscores at all, and you've got no way of taking a photo of your score then the only real alternative is emulation. Unless you decide not to enter ;)

[Graham Humphrey]

Reluctantly decided to rule out Lotus 2 from the competition, for reasons already stated. But hey, we've still got the other two ;)

[mailman]

@Vermillion

Franko should be in the thread about ineligible games. You cannot have more than 175 points (AFAIR) and it is easy to obtain that score.

[Graham Humphrey]

Franko should be in the thread about ineligible games. You cannot have more than 175 points (AFAIR) and it is easy to obtain that score.

I'll have to investigate this one ;)

EDIT: Posts moved to correct thread ;)

[Graham Humphrey]

Wow Franko sucks :laughing

I also happen to be really bad at it; is there anyone out there who can do me a huge favour (i.e. do my job for me ;)) and play it themselves to see if they can confirm what mailman says?

[Shoonay]

Back in 1997 I would seriously reconsider that offer GH, when me gaming buddie with his A500 was still around and we did enjoyed playing it in 2p mode ;)

[mailman]

Wow Franko sucks :laughing

I also happen to be really bad at it; is there anyone out there who can do me a huge favour (i.e. do my job for me ;)) and play it themselves to see if they can confirm what mailman says?

Franko is a special game for Polish people. It gives you the feeling of early post-socialism times with ubiquitous supermarkets of one brand (Spolem). Also all of these voices you can hear during the game are understandable only for Polish people. There is a lot of polish equivalents for english: "Suck it", "I will crush you/smash you", "I'll get you", "Get lost, loser", "Toss off, sucker" and more. Also the bonus round when you are driving FSO 126p (polish called it "maluch" (english - troddler) is very "from our (Poles) times". Nevertheless, the game could have been done a lot of better.

Back to your question, you must kill all the buddies which are exactly 175. It is pretty easy to achieve, especially when you can beat all the enemies using just one blow, and being precise, one kick: high kick. You can kick and jump on them which is the easiest way to walk through the game. Of course if you like, you can play with them using all these sophisticated punches, kickings, headings, kneeings and so on...

My high score table from this game is filled only with one score: 175. The only difference is who got it: me or my brother.

[Graham Humphrey]

Hmm, probably best not to allow this then, it won't be much of a competition after all ;)

Also (although I can't see many people losing sleep over this one) Bubble Dizzy is banned as extra lives, stupidly, regenerate when you die, meaning you can basically get an extra life, die, get it again, die, etc, just to build up a massive score. (Thanks Jason for pointing this one out!)