Can you have hard drives under wb1.3 in WinUAE?

[Bloodwych]

I've got the Workbench 2 and 3 hard drive directories working a treat, but I'm trying to create an Amiga 500, 1.3, OCS hard drive set-up for some older games and software.

When I create a directory and copy the WB1.3 disk onto it using shell, everything boots up fine just as on WB2/3. All the icons from the wb1.3 disk show up fine.

However, when I try to install any software onto the 1.3 harddrive, the icons don't appear. The files are there as shown by shell (including the .info icon files) but the darn things don't show up.

This means I have to use shell and "execute" the files in order to get software to work, rather than double click on the icons.

Do I have to create a hardfile instead with 1.3, then mount it in the startup-sequence?

Is there a method of successfully using hard drives with WB1.3?

Do I have to change the 1.3 startup-sequence in any way?

Thanks for the advice! :)

[oldpx]

It's been discussed here (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2646) before. Just copy the contents of your WB1.3 into a dir. You need nothing else but you'll recieve some error messages saying "pure bit not set" .The way to solve this is also covered in that thread.

[Bloodwych]

Sorry Burseg and others, I must be blind missing those threads.

The only excuse I have is that I posted this in a rush because I was watching something on TV.

Thanks for the pointer, I'll give it a go.

[Bloodwych]

Hmm, I've read the threads and they don't help. :(

If you read my original message I've already created a bootable hard drive directory, but it's not working correclty.

When I create a directory and copy the WB1.3 disk onto it using shell within WinUAE, everything boots up fine just as on WB2/3. All the icons from the wb1.3 disk show up fine.

However, when I try to install any software onto the 1.3 harddrive, the icons don't appear. The files are there as shown by shell (including the .info icon files) but the darn things don't show up.

This means I have to use shell and "execute" the files in order to get software to work, rather than double click on the icons.

I get no error messages on boot-up, just this strange behaviour.

[oldpx]

Hmm I know I'm not helping much but you need to understand if it's caused by the emulator or your workbench. You should recieve this errors with a regular unmodified wb 1.3 :D

I advise you to try an alternative wb 1.3 disk and an alternative WinUAE version

[Bloodwych]

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into it and report back - strange problem though :confused

FInding another 1.3 disk is going to be hard, so I'll try a different emu version first........

[RetroMan]

The Problem is that Kick 1.3 natively does NOT support Hard Drives .... The support for HD´s with Kick 1.3 was done by the HD Controller, so that may cause all those problems ....

[oldpx]

But why didn't other people experienced this? I don't include myself because I never used wb 1.3 in a session longer than 5 minutes :D

[oldpx]

I take it, the only way to solve this is by patching the emulator to simulate a HD controller right?

[Exodus]

Burseg, I have the same problem when I install software on my hard drive, the icons won't show up. The way I solve it is open up a shell, go to the directory when I installed the program, and just type the command in to load the program.

To give you an example, I just get my hands on one of the coverdisks of CU Amiga (can't remember the number) which included the full version of PageStream 2, which is a desktop-publishing program. After I installed it on my WB 3.1 hard drive, the drawer that I installed it to was invisible. So the only way I could run the program is to open up the shell, and run it by going into the drawer then typing the command.

As for making future WinUAE versions simulate a HD controller, have you asked Toni yet?

[oldpx]

It's unbelieveable this hadn't been fixed before. I wonder if winfellow behaves differently. I've not talked to Toni naturally but I expect him to see this thread.

[Exodus]

WinFellow also acts the same way.

[Bloodwych]

Originally posted by Exodus
After I installed it on my WB 3.1 hard drive, the drawer that I installed it to was invisible.

You did mean WB 1.3 hard drives didn't you Exodus?

The WB 3.1 hard drives work fine.

[Bloodwych]

Here is an interesting reply off UAE discussion board where I posted a similar thread:


I've had the same problem, and eventually I figured out that to make my icons appear, I had to go into the directory that I was expecting to see the icons in and delete the file ".info", after which the new icons that had been added to that directory would show up under Workbench. I haven't yet gotten around to seeing if the same problem would exist if I used a hardfile.

Now the other WB (2x onwards) don't create .info files without accompanying filenames and therefore don't have issues.

Since files named with only an extension (ie .XXX) like found in WB 1.3 are incompatible with MS-DOS, this might be the route of the problem with 1.3 directory hard drives.

Therefore a hardfile should solve this problem if you can get the thing mounted and setup ok. If not get deleting those .info files!

A similar incompatibility exists with the .backdrop files, or any other similar .XXX files sometimes used in WB 2/3, as I found while trying to copy Amiga HD directories within Windows. Explorer would crash or backup programs simply ignore these files with MS-DOS incompatible names.

Conclusion - The problem with using harddrive directories is that incompatibility issues arise from the windows file system primarily due to:

.backdrop files.

On Workbench 2.0 or greater machines, this tells the Workbench which icons have been dragged out of a drawer and onto the Workbench.

.info files.

These files Contain some information about the current directory.

[Toni Wilen]

I've not talked to Toni naturally but I expect him to see this thread.

I am not familiar with Amiga->Windows filesystem translation code. (same with audio code) Sorry, can't help..

[Exodus]

No, I did mean WB 3.1 hard drives, Bloodwych. If you're saying that WB 3.1 hard drives have no problem with drawers being invisible after you instal software, then perhaps I needed to create a drawer prior to the installation, then install the software to that drawer. I don't think I did this. My fault.

Thanks anyway, Toni. I remember reading in a thread that Bernd is responsible for the filesystems. Maybe you could ask him to add support for harddrives under WB 1.x.

[Bloodwych]

I found a solution!!!!! :)

Looking through Aminet I found this neat program that solves all my issues with wb1.3 directory drives. It's also useful for higher systems as well.

no.info on aminet (http://uk.aminet.net/aminetbin/find?no.info)

Place it in your c directory and add the line "no.info" to your startup-sequence file, just before "loadwb". That's all there is too it, problem solved! :)

Read the above info at the link for details.

[Exodus]

I copied No.Info to the C directory, but what exactly do you type in the S:Startup-Sequence file? I'm sure you can't just type No.Info in the file.

[Bloodwych]

That's all you need to add, but make sure it's before loadwb and on a line by itself. It executes itself like explained by the help file:

"No.Info is merely a CLI command, copy it into your C directory and add No.Info to your S:Startup-Sequence, before your LOADWB. It's completely OS friendly and doesn't require any extra libraries or devices. Start it before any program which may read icons."

For instance, when I'm booting WB1.3 it comes up "no.info version xx by xx" showing that it's working. And now all my icons show up in wb1.3 when I install software.

Read the documentation provided in my previous post above, it explains exactly what it does.

[Exodus]

Thanks. I just didn't know that you could include .info files in S:Startup-Sequence, but only AmigaDOS commands.

Thanks for the info as well. I was wondering why drawers were invisible when I opened my root drive.

[Paul]

*bump*

edit:
I have bumped this up again so that I can find it easier. I intend to write a guide to add to the others.

Do I still need no.info?

[Bloodwych]

Paul:

I still use "noinfo" in my wb1.3 pc directory harddrive setup.

As you probably know, the reason I use a pc directory for wb1.3 is because HDF files (last time I checked) can't be auto-mounted. The 1.3 ROM isn't capable of it.

If you use a HDF file for a wb1.3 harddrive (can these be auto-mounted now?) then you won't need it.

Never tried removing "noinfo" from my 1.3 startup-sequence with newer versions of winuae so I'm not sure if it's still required. :confused :)

[Bloodwych]

Thanks for the pm Paul. :)

Damn, I started this thread a whole year ago!!! :shocked

How time flies............... :(

[andreas]

Originally posted by Bloodwych
If you use a HDF file for a wb1.3 harddrive (can these be auto-mounted now?) then you won't need it.

Yes, they can! :)
This is possible by copying FastFileSystem from the L: folder of a WB 1.3 disk image to the WinUAE Kickstart ROMs directory.

First, tick the box "Add PC drives at startup" in Harddrive settings.
(This option also works if you have inserted neither a HDF nor a harddir.)

Now insert a WB 1.3 disk image into DF0: and wait until booting is finished.

Unfortunately, the following part is a bit tricky. You must have CLI knowledge because you cannot do this with the mouse.
Unlike WB 3.x, WB 1.3 does NOT provide an option to show files that have no icon assigned. The FastFileSystem binary resides in the L: directory, and there is NO .info file for the L: directory, so the folder doesn't show up when opening the WB 1.3 root folder!
Therefore, open a Shell, and remember one random label of a Windows partition, e. g. CDISK:.

Now type:

1> copy L:FastFileSystem CDISK:

This sample line will cause the FastFileSystem binary to be copied to the root directory of your Windows system partition which is labeled CDISK. Now you can access the file from Windows and copy it to the directory where your Kickstart ROM files (*.rom) reside.

Alternatively:
You can also use ADFOpus (http://adfopus.sourceforge.net/) for this job, using a WB 1.3 disk image for ripping the FastFileSystem binary.

With FastFileSystem in the Kickstart ROMs directory, you are now able to auto-boot HDFs using Kick 1.3! :great
(Note that there is no requirement to have the HDF formatted with OFS. HDFs formatted with FFS will work as well.)

Hope this helps.

[Bloodwych]

Thanks andreas, cli knowledge is no problemo. Very useful info. :)

[Toni Wilen]

Why not simply create "full" harddrive image and partition it with HDToolBox?

In my opinion there is no need for creating new regular Workbench HDFs anymore.

[Paul]

Workbench 1.3 does not include HDToolBox :confused

WB2.x or higher only has it.

Or is an OS1.3 one available from Aminet? If so, which is the best?

[Paul]

I can’t get the HDF file to show up.

These are the steps I did
http://jambo.abime.net

When I boot WB1.3 up the HDF file does not show to be able to format it. FastFileSystem is in kickstarts folder. (tried the FastFileSystem in winuae program directory and it still did not work.)

Any ideas what I did wrong?

[Toni Wilen]

When I boot WB1.3 up the HDF file does not show to be able to format it

Thats correct. HDF must be formatted before it is visible under KS 1.3. WinUAE "fake-RDB-filesystem-emulation" can't mount it because it can't autodetect the filesystem type until it is formatted.

Workbench 1.3 does not include HDToolBox

HDInstTools from Aminet works perfectly under KS1.3.
You only need to change device to uaehf.device (select HDInstTools's icon, select info from menu and change ";DEVICE=scsi.device" to "DEVICE=uaehf.device" from tooltypes-list)

When partitioning with HDInstTools, don't forget to add L:FastFileSystem to RDB's filesystem list or automount/boot won't work under KS 1.3.

[Paul]

Thanks Toni.

I will give it a try.

[andreas]

I got the solution a minute ago:

Attach your unformatted HDF, but boot from your WB 1.3 disk using Kickstart 2.04/2.05!

Now it will show up. Format it, and after formatting it, change your Kickstart ROM file from 2.x to 1.3 (for safety reasons), then REBOOT.
Now you can do what you want with the formatted HDF image, which will show up now, in spite of using the 1.3 ROM!

[Paul]

Thanks Andreas. I have now finished the main parts of the guide. I would be grateful if you would check it for me please:) Thanks.

[andreas]

Nice work Paul! Looks good, even though in a WB 1.3 HD installation guide, I wouldn't blindly switch to a WB 3.1 installation (step 52) :rolleyes
If you ask me, this can be very confusing.

[Paul]

Originally posted by andreas
Nice work Paul! Looks good, even though in a WB 1.3 HD installation guide, I wouldn't blindly switch to a WB 3.1 installation (step 52) :rolleyes
If you ask me, this can be very confusing.

Thanks for that.:) Taking short cuts never works does it? :laughing

I will redo that part soon.

[Paul]

Yes that looks better:D

[Paul]

This thread's how old?:shocked.....anyway I could not remember why I said in my 1.3 guide to put FastFileSystem in my kickstarts dir.

Think I need to add why to my guide.:agree