my own pet project: Abime MapMaker

[gimbal]

Seeing that the Amiga Game Factory is becoming very alive and I'm making some progress on my own project I thought I'd share my progress.

This project got my interest because of another thread:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=24266


By bippym:

Maybe someone could code a little map generator images/smilies/smile.gif


Well I'm doing just that :)

The main goal of this editor is to get some l33t sk1llz with desktop application development (I'm an enterprise app kind of guy) and to be able to easily create maps for Captive the way I want too. Not only that, but the editor will save to a portable XML format that can either be used directly or can easily be converted to be used as the base for a game.

I'll start off with a screeny of the current state of the editor:

http://users.insane-hq.org/%7Egimbal/mapmaker/screens/devscreen01.png


It's only an early development stage (so the appearance may still change radically), but quite a lot is already working to my own surprise. I can fluently edit each floor, add multiple floors to a single map (each with equal size), import icon sets (icon set = zip file with 16*16 PNG icons, you can specify a different icon set for each floor if you want), the gui updates according to it's state (like menu items disabling when they cannot be used) and the app is already filled with notification messages and such to help you understand what is going on and warn you when you are about to do something stupid.

[ start boring coder geekishness ]

The best thing is that I managed a Model View Controller pattern, so all my application logic (for example map state changes) is completely seperated from my GUI logic (for example map drawing). The app is basically built such that:

1) gui generates an event ("mouse dragged over cell X,Y")
2) controller picks up the event ("HE DRAGGED! HE DRAGGED!")
3) logic action is executed ("update icon in cell X,Y")
4) an event is generated ("cell X,Y was updated") and caught by a GUI listener, which then updates itself according to the event that was received, for example by redrawing the map.

This allows me to quite easily plugin new features or rewire old ones without the need to rewrite whole sections of code and hunt through endless gobs of GUI event handling code.

[ end boring coder geekishness ]


I've put all the TODO's for the project in a seperate document for easy updating and viewing. You can find it here:

http://users.insane-hq.org/~gimbal/mapmaker/mm_todo.html

[Zetr0]

That has a lot of potential big G :)

After we sort out the EOB formats I would love to discuss CAPTIVE map generation a little more ;)

and it could become as you say a multi UNIVERSAL map maker / editor for various retro and forthcomming games through the simple use of XML [plug ins]:)

i like it :)

upload, create and edit your favourite maps for your favourite games ONLINE :)

[Marcuz]

i cheer up this project, very good idea :)
btw, about the grid: it could be useful that way or you can go completely off the path with a paint mode, not geometrical precise but cool to see, like an hand made map (just a fool suggestion)

[bippym]

This is wicked project Gimbal and I can't wait to properly start mapping Captive (not by playing either so it'll be quicker)


After we sort out the EOB formats I would love to discuss CAPTIVE map generation a little more ;)
:)

EVERY Captive level is generated by the map generator from a 16bit seed number (starting at 00001 upto 65535) that's the max number of levels.

We'd need to resource that and figure out how it decides which tile-map it uses, how to structure the level, where the codes are (which are 8 and 16bit respectively)...

Anyway this is for a later project and is hopefully my future baby :D

[gimbal]

Ha, this is the first time that I start a project that people actually want to use ;) That gives me just the right amount of motivation to finish this sucker ASAP. And what do you know? Tomorrow is my last day of school, after that I have six weeks all to myself...


upload, create and edit your favourite maps for your favourite games ONLINE


Alas, it's an offline app since I simply loathe applets, and you don't have access to the local filesystem from an applet either (would be fun, go to a webpage with an applet that then reads your address book and uploads it to a server, or formats your harddrive...) But heck if you want to put your stuff online I can always include an FTP upload function to do just that. And I can create a webstart link which will automatically install/update the app as well, provided that you have a JRE properly installed.


editor for various retro and forthcomming games through the simple use of XML [plug ins]


Yes, I should make it plugin based. Each plugin would be able to read it's own stuff from an XML level file and write it back. Only thing is that I need to develop dynamic GUI stuff that you can bind to the plugin... that's one that needs some hard thinking on my part :) The Netbeans IDE has done this very nicely and also through XML config files, maybe I can get some ideas there.


btw, about the grid: it could be useful that way or you can go completely off the path with a paint mode, not geometrical precise but cool to see, like an hand made map


I'm keeping it on the could have list. I'm painting the map myself, so I can always paint a grid myself as well.

[keropi]

it rocks , keeps coding! a very usefull tool! :great

[Zetr0]

I tell you what Gimbal, once i get things on the ball here, and catch up a couple of things the wifes been going on about arround the house, it would be a pleasure to work with you on this. :)

[gimbal]

What do you all think about the keyboard edit mode? Is there anyone that would want such a feature?

[bippym]

Here is my take on the map thing and some features I'd like to see..

- Deluxe Paint type editing. Select floor/wall icon (would be a colour in DP) and then paint it on how you see fit. Left mouse paint, right mouse erase :D Pixel Map Making lol

- A useful fill option. So I could for example draw an outline of say the pathway and fill it in

- Support for movable walls etc.. Captive features these in abundance

- Keyboard support for quick and dirty editing (as you say). But I'd like to for example give it my x,y,z co-ords and it'll plop the tile there. Also maybe an x,y,z to x1,y1,z1 and it fills the square area with the tile.

- Configurable map pieces. I'd like to resize some of the Captive gfx and use that directly. Then if it looked silly I could load in a different tile/icon set and the map is updated to reflect. Also drag and drop icon/map tiles so I can swap the tile locations about and the program asks if you want to swap the tiles in the map. If you was to select yes the tiles in the actual map are swapped. If you select no the ID number for the tiles are swapped so that the map appears to look the same.

This could be expanded and one could mark (Shift or ctrl select or drag mouse) and then tiles selected are swapped only

- An option to include enemy patrolling paths. Generally in Captive most enemies home in on the player and head towards him (the player must be within a certain distance). Some enemies (postman, scientist) don't do this unless provoked. They simple follow a set path.

- Option to load in say 10 maps for different levels and then cycle through them at the touch of a key/mousebutton

- Printing support with some properly useful resizing. So what you print looks the same as what is on the screen and doesn't lose too much detail (This is obviously depenedant on a few factors). Also the option to SPAN paper, this would be useful for printing at the full size.

- Grid overlay is an important feature and should be included. Though the grid lines should be configurable in width and colour.

- Scalable. It'd be nice if you could scale the map and it'd keep the layout etc.. make it bigger, smaller (16x16 to 32x32 etc). This would need the map to be saved in it's own format for future support.

- PNG saving should be an export feature as other formats could then be added (IFF-ILBM :p)

That'll do fir the time being.. I'm sure I'll think of more :D

[gimbal]

- Deluxe Paint type editing. Select floor/wall icon (would be a colour in DP) and then paint it on how you see fit. Left mouse paint, right mouse erase :D Pixel Map Making lol


Right mouse erase would be nice, but then I won't be able to include a context menu for plugin options. A configurable key + left mouseclick to erase however sounds like a good idea. An eyedropper tool is another good idea.


- A useful fill option. So I could for example draw an outline of say the pathway and fill it in


Flood fill, I already have that in my list :)


- Support for movable walls etc.. Captive features these in abundance


That's game specific and thus a plugin feature. To begin with you can create an icon for a moveable wall.


- Keyboard support for quick and dirty editing (as you say). But I'd like to for example give it my x,y,z co-ords and it'll plop the tile there. Also maybe an x,y,z to x1,y1,z1 and it fills the square area with the tile.


You could increase the cursor size to fill a square area. I wonder why it would be easier to have to input coordinates though, navigating and then mashing space seems a lot less effort.


- Configurable map pieces. I'd like to resize some of the Captive gfx and use that directly. Then if it looked silly I could load in a different tile/icon set and the map is updated to reflect.


That would involve declaring static tilesets so that the app can recognize each icon, the app as it is allows any tileset you want of any size by mapping the filename of an icon to the cell and the zip filename to the floor. What I could do is allow you to reload an iconset, so you can replace the zipfile and then have the app update the gfx from it.


- An option to include enemy patrolling paths. Generally in Captive most enemies home in on the player and head towards him (the player must be within a certain distance). Some enemies (postman, scientist) don't do this unless provoked. They simple follow a set path.


Again game specific and thus a plugin feature, but now I do realize that simply declaring a floor may be to limiting as this won't allow the placement of waypoints, items and critters on top of map tiles. Each floor should consist of different layers that can be switched on and off, each with possibly a different icon set.


- Option to load in say 10 maps for different levels and then cycle through them at the touch of a key/mousebutton


Hm, sort of a project workspace. I like that idea.



- Printing support with some properly useful resizing. So what you print looks the same as what is on the screen and doesn't lose too much detail (This is obviously depenedant on a few factors). Also the option to SPAN paper, this would be useful for printing at the full size.


I could try to hack that, but Adobe Photoshop will ALWAYS be better at it. Printing is a real bitch to implement and can take way too much time to get right. I'd rather have you export the map as an image and then print it the way you like in your favourite image manipulation tool.


- Grid overlay is an important feature and should be included. Though the grid lines should be configurable in width and colour.


Noted. Everything should be configurable.


- Scalable. It'd be nice if you could scale the map and it'd keep the layout etc.. make it bigger, smaller (16x16 to 32x32 etc). This would need the map to be saved in it's own format for future support.


You mean zoom support? I could include a double pixel mode such as winuae has, I don't see why you would want to go any further unless you like to count pixels.


- PNG saving should be an export feature as other formats could then be added (IFF-ILBM :p)


Again, Photoshop is way better at saving in other formats and I believe it allows you to convert multiple images at the same time. PNG is widely accepted, has good compression and is still lossless, that's why I chose it. If you want to convert to another type you are free to do so with your favorite image manipulation tool.

[bippym]

I wonder why it would be easier to have to input coordinates though, navigating and then mashing space seems a lot less effort.

Quicker.. and more accurate.. The way I have started to map captive is to move my bots around the game map by hacking their location in memory.

I can for example immediately move the droids to 0,0 and then see what is in 0,1 and 0,2 etc.. I could then quickly select tileset and then just enter 0,1 to 0,16 in the co-ords box and it'd draw the 17 blocks for me from the current location :D

It'd be much quicker than finding the coordinate, swapping to the editor, moving the mouse to where I wanna paint. Then painting the 17 blocks then switching back to the game

That would involve declaring static tilesets so that the app can recognize each icon, the app as it is allows any tileset you want of any size by mapping the filename of an icon to the cell and the zip filename to the floor. What I could do is allow you to reload an iconset, so you can replace the zipfile and then have the app update the gfx from it.

The user could load the images and then the program could automatically set each icon or the user can do it. Once done the iconset should be saveable so it'd be easy to reload it later. Once that is done the user wouldn't need to organise them again.

Again game specific and thus a plugin feature, but now I do realize that simply declaring a floor may be to limiting as this won't allow the placement of waypoints, items and critters on top of map tiles. Each floor should consist of different layers that can be switched on and off, each with possibly a different icon set.

That is a good idea :D

Hm, sort of a project workspace. I like that idea.

This way the user could have the maps for say 10 levels loaded and as they progress thru the game they can goto the next level without loading it :D

The maps should be downloadable and viewable from the program (This way things that a picture can't portray can be viewed)

You mean zoom support? I could include a double pixel mode such as winuae has, I don't see why you would want to go any further unless you like to count pixels.

Some people collect stamps, some watch trains :P :lol

[gimbal]

I can for example immediately move the droids to 0,0 and then see what is in 0,1 and 0,2 etc.. I could then quickly select tileset and then just enter 0,1 to 0,16 in the co-ords box and it'd draw the 17 blocks for me from the current location


Okay, a "move cursor to X,Y" function. I'll add that to the should have list (along with the keyboard edit mode).



The user could load the images and then the program could automatically set each icon or the user can do it. Once done the iconset should be saveable so it'd be easy to reload it later. Once that is done the user wouldn't need to organise them again.


Right, managing the icon sets from within the app, that would indeed make it less annoying. Heck, I'll even put an icon editor on the could have list.

Note that you can now find a link to the TODO list in the top post.

[Zetr0]

Heys Gimbal, have you thought of starting a wiki ?>

break down the TODO list into areas and then have forums based on works completed within that item.

you could end up with a lot more input too :) (and prolly a bigger TODO list :D)

[gimbal]

I don't want a bigger TODO list, I have enough to do as it is :) It's a tough life to please the almighty bippym :)

[gimbal]

Just to let y'all know that I'm not dead: I'm currently working like a dog to get the workspace logic implemented. Because of this the way the app internally references information changed completely so a fair amount of code needed to be reworked... I'm currently wrapping that up and then I'll be able to add new features again :s

Oh well, at least the information is now more logically structured and easier to manage through the GUI. The way I've got it setup is to have workspaces store inside the application directory. Each workspace will then manage it's own maps and icon sets, so the structure may look like:

workspaces/workspacename/config.xml
workspaces/workspacename/maps/map1.xml
workspaces/workspacename/maps/map2.xml
workspaces/workspacename/iconsets/iconset1.zip
etc.

Selecting a map will NOT go through a file-open GUI but through a simple selection list (with multiple columns, because there may well be 65535 maps in there :) ) that I'll apply some filter options to so you can limit them. I'll probably give each map a number and a name you can provide yourself and then you can have the choice to open a specific number or select a (filtered) name or something. It may also be a nice feature to be able to add maps to a work-in-progress list where you can select them from quickly, something like the Firefox download widget.

The config file is used to remember the state of the app per workspace. So when you have a certain map and floor opened when you close the workspace, the next time you open it that map and floor will be displayed again. I'll try to figure out how to get the app to remember window states as well.

[gimbal]

YES! It's been bugging me since the day I started this project, but now I fixed it: no matter what the size of the map, drawing is now silky smooth! Man that's a huge load of my shoulders. (the change is: originally I was redrawing the entire map with every update, now I'm only redrawing those parts that changed which is usually 1 or 2 icons each update).

With an exception: scrolling still updates like crap. But once I figure out how to get the current visible viewport dimensions (so that I again may limit the amount of drawing that needs to be done), that is also fixed :)

The workspace and loading/saving of a map is also implemented. I still have some work to do with iconset management: currently it is only possible to import existing iconsets into a workspace, creating a new one or editing an existing one is the next thing on the TODO list.

I also changed the map format: it's still XML but I changed the cell information to comma seperated. That made a nearly empty 100*100 map go from 256k to only 10k :) It's actually pretty neat to see your map in semi-ascii map form when opened in a text editor.

[bippym]

Cool :)

I'm looking forward to beta testing :p

[gimbal]

There will hopefully first be a few rounds of alpha tests, A beta test is done on a finished product to get the last bugs out. By then it is too late to make design changes.

[Marcuz]

can i ask a little OT, out of curiosity? is there, between programmers and program designers, a defined line between alpha and beta tests? like something you learn in school, or it's just a thing based on each project and your eye, or your way of working?

[Zetr0]

general theres a review and sign off for each stage of a project, depeneding on project the design could be in review for months before programming begins, and depending on the design model chosen, i.e. Waterfall, RAD etc.

There are many ethos and reasons for each development model and why some are prefered over others depeneds on your product output.

a common ethos is SDLC (software development life cycle)

http://stylusinc.com/Common/Concerns/SoftwareDevtPhilosophy.php

its a bit of a read but a good resource for project managment / leading, as well as developing your own projects.

this particular resource was considered initial reading on my HND in computing studdies as well as a resource for my BSc in computing science. and in all truth i do go back to it now and again.

[Marcuz]

very interesting read, thanks!

[Zetr0]

personally through experience, Alpha testing tests core components and functionality independently where as Beta testing tests a combined range of components for instance testing a 3d engine is an alpha and then testing level design within that engine would be a beta.

[gimbal]

Hm yes, if you would use the rational unified process / Object Oriented Analysis & Design then you could do a beta test on each milestone. It's a bit of an open ended description now that I think about it.

[gimbal]

question for you guys, what should I do:

The situation is that currently you can create a workspace, a map and a floor, three seperate steps (a floor is added to a map, a map is added to a workspace).

Now when you create a new map you most likely also want to create a floor. Should I:

1) automatically popup the new floor window after you create a map? Creating a map consists of inputting a name and initial dimensions in cells.

2) embed the floor creation into the create map window (next to a seperate window which is used to add additional floors to a map). Creating a floor consists of inputting a name and choosing the icon set to use for that floor.

3) do nothing, the user must select create map / create floor manually from the menu (the way it is now)


Note that embedding the map and floor creation into the create workspace window is not possible (or feasible is a better word, anything is possible) because you cannot create a floor before you created a new icon set or imported an existing one into the workspace.

What do you guys think? Personally I think option 3 is a bit annoying because it takes an extra step before you can start drawing. I think option 1 is the cleanest because then there is still only one way in the GUI to create a floor.

[Zetr0]

this floor, is it static for every cell you populate or can it be changed variably?

i am thinking graphically here, for instance a stomp througha forest then into a temple ?

if it is variable then 1 should be fine, as a designer would sure pick the most he/she would use on that level. however if its static... hmmm

[Marcuz]

let me understand: option 1) when you say the map is created by adding a name and defining the cell number, is this before starting to draw? if so, let's say you are exploring an unknown dungeon and you do not know the absolute position of your entry point, you don't know then for sure how big the map is. so is it resizable during work, like: add/subtract x to the right, left, up or/and down or it is even croppable?
i'm sorry if i'm not getting the point here, buy a screenshot would help me.

[gimbal]

Marco:

INITIAL size, it is very possible to resize a map (when I implement the feature in the GUI).

Both:

I'm obviously not expressing myself clearly :) My question has nothing to do with how one draws a floor, I merely want to know what steps a user should take when creating a new map. Currently you create a new workspace (or open an existing one of course), then you select 'create map' from the menu and when you have done that you select 'create floor' from the menu. That's option 3, in my opinion the most user unfriendly option because it takes 3 menu actions before you get to draw your floor.

I pose two alternative methods:

1) after creating a map automatically popup the 'create floor' window so the user can create the initial floor without having to click on a menu item yet again

or

2) embed the 'create floor' window logic into the 'create map' window so that the user can instantly create an initial floor without having to go through another popup window.


Creating a floor is a seperate step from creating a map because a single map can consist of several floors (think captive). But when you create a new map I'd say you also instantly want to create a new floor for that map, else you have nothing to draw on. If you agree, which of the two options would be the best option? I'm leaning towards option 1) myself because then there is only one window that deals with creating a floor in stead of two.

[Marcuz]

now i get it. by floor i thought you meant the actual different colour tiles, like the fill in of a map. i would go with the 2nd possibility

[gimbal]

Great, that's one who disagrees with me :) Anyone else agree with Marco?

[Zetr0]

hmmm, (ponders), you know big G i do see your dilema....

hmmm, there is another option that you haven`t listed.....

why not use a yes / no dialog to create floor popup after the selection of the menu option to create-map?

sorta like

File>>New>>CreateMap

*pop* do you wish to start with floor tiles? Y/N ( yay or nay boxes :) )

but its tricky, as it kinda depeneds on your design flow. you could have a radial / tick box which either remembers preference or ignores the dialog box for any further createmap requests.. or both even..

but i do sympathize... the biggest problem about GUI programming is that it can make perfect sense to us coders but to the user..... welll.... you know all to well what i am on about....

still i am impressed with your work :)

[gimbal]

Your idea is something like option 1), which also gives you the option to create a floor. You can always press cancel. I can't create a floor without the user inputting a floorname because you don't save an individual floor: you only save the entire map.

In regular apps you will always see both a save and a save as button. My app doesn't have that, because not only is everything managed within the application directory but you also provide names right from the start, in stead of when you hit save/save as. So I don't need a save as function because I already have all the information I need. I find my solution a lot more user friendly and it provides for an additional feature: the option to easily create backups of your work. Plus that you don't need to hunt around for workspaces with a file dialog, I can simply present to you a list of workspaces and you can choose one.

*puts backup feature on the should have list*

Note: the app provides functions to rename a workspace, map or floor.

[Zetr0]

what about auto backup feature?

will it be possible to <<import>> elements form other workspaces?

say i have done a wicked cool dungeon level for bardstale and i wanna put it into eob with some extra stuffs like command / event stacking with extra bells and whistles, diff monsters, traps, secrets etc but essentially the orginal initial layout?

hmmm i shall call it EOB return to Kayran Dungeon... and bardstaleVI escape from Kayran Dungeon..

[Marcuz]

now that you mention, it would be cool if there would be interoperability with different map programs: like, if someone is going to make a map editor for to use in specific games, like EoB and would like to import in it the map done with this program. or something like this. after all: why to stop at hacking and customizing EoB when there are also other succulent rpg for amiga and pc around? :) hint... Black Crypt? hehehehe...

[gimbal]

what about auto backup feature?


Anything is possible :) The hard part is going to be how to handle putting a backup back. Probably by letting the user select which maps to extract from the backup and inject into the matching workspace, replacing any maps with the same name.


will it be possible to <<import>> elements form other workspaces?


That is a no-brainer, it's a matter of copying some stuff from workspace A to workspace B. Currently it is already possible to import the icons. In the end each floor will have several layers, intended to be able to add monsters and stuff on top of the actual physical floor. So you could just remove the layers will the old monsters/traps/etc. (or perhaps I can include the option to simply not import those layers) and then add new layers with the new content.


if someone is going to make a map editor for to use in specific games, like EoB and would like to import in it the map done with this program


The app itself is going to contain as much generic RPG stuff as possible, and will in the end allow you to bind specific information to an icon (through plugins) that can be saved along into the XML map format (and you can then convert this into anything you want). Hopefully it will be possible to do everything you may want for simple dungeon romp style RPG's.


I'm currently wrapping up icon set creation and editing. With it you can:

- create a new icon set
- add icons to an existing icon set
- remove icons
- replace icons on the fly (so an icon that is already used can be replaced with a new one and that icon is then injected into every cell where the old icon was used).

And on the could have list is the ability to create your own icons from within the map editor. But that is for much later, when the primary functions of the app are all implemented.

This feature is not as simple as you may think. Especially because editing an icon set that is already in use is very error-prone: if you remove an icon that is used in a hundred floors then you are going to lose a lot of work: not something that is allowed to happen. So you may not remove icons that are in use, but then you must have the ability to replace them with a new one... But what if you want to replace that specific icon in the current map, but NOT in all the other maps that it is used...

[gimbal]

Okay, icon set creating / editing is finished (took me some time, but I used a few vacation days to NOT sit behind my computer for a change...). On to being able to create multiple layers in a floor. I'm aiming at doing something very similar to photoshop where you can turn different layers on and off.

I even discovered a new must have: "gui must support multiple languages". Not a very difficult one to implement luckily.

And another should have: "implement help system". The app is shaping up such that each window has multiple buttons and input fields, it would be nice if there was an online help to explain all the fields. Saves me from having to write a manual as well, I'll just use the internal help for that.

[Zetr0]

for the wont of having your arms full Gimbal, it seems your work never endeth'! lol.

Some damn good work my friend. i look forward to help getting it in linking with other maps / games etc.

[gimbal]

Some damn good work my friend


He, I'll release the first alpha as soon as I implement the erase function and the multiple layers, only then you can judge if I did damn good work ;)

I've been updating the todo list but not the screenshot, so check the top post for the current version. Not much changed in the main window yet (except that now it lists the workspace name in the title bar ("wimpie" in this case, don't ask me how I came up with it because nonsense just comes natural to me) and a map name/floor name in the status bar). I'd create screenshots of the different management windows but, well, they are not very interesting :)

[gimbal]

For those of you that think this little project is dead: no way :)

Its just that during the summer vacation I always for some reason lose all interest in programming for a few weeks and I do nothing else but play games like all the time (had a brief Dungeon Siege 2 addiction there). This summer was no different, and next summer will most likely not be any different also.

But now the vacation is over and the itch has returned! First task at hand: get to learn the code again :s Second task at hand: figure out what needs to be fixed. Luckily I documented it all.

[gimbal]

Gah! And the first thing I'm changing is the icon sets: screw zip files, I'm turning them into a directory of images. That makes it so much easier to manage them and it will save so much redundant code... This is one of those "what on earth was I thinking?" moments.

[keropi]

u know what would really rock??? a pocket pc version of the map maker... so u can have it right next to u, without needing a 2nd pc...

[gimbal]

If you can send me a pocket pc I might think about it ;)

[Zetr0]

i recently had mine stolen :(

my poor lil mobile phone didn`t stand a chance..


so if ANYONE gets offered a T-Mobile MDA with a 512MB MMC containing every emulator under the sun lol, please let me know :)

[gimbal]

Just thought that I would give an update. Before the first "preview" release (which is by no means an alpha or a beta release yet, just to show what I've been up to) I've been hacking on making the gui less annoying. Less is more is the keyword here, so the app is now starting to anticipate what the user wants to do. For example, when you create a new workspace the "manage iconset" popup automatically appears because without an iconset you can basically do nothing.

Not only that, but check out this screeny:

http://users.insane-hq.org/%7Egimbal/mapmaker/screens/devscreen02.png

This screenshot shows clearly what my life has been about the last two weeks. The text box at the bottom I've added to basically all popup windows to just help the user explain what he is looking at. Otherwise you are just staring at a scary listbox with a few buttons and that does NOT look friendly at all.

Other than that its been all about spacing, marges, borders, bold text, button positions, icons, etc. etc. As you can see in the screeny I haven't touched the topic of fonts yet, the font size of the text box is clearly too large. Funny how such a simple thing can instantly make an app look unfriendly. I've had the same with buttons: at first I used buttons with no marges around the text so they stay as small as they can be. It turns out that adding space between the left and right border of a button and it's text makes the buttons somehow more eye pleasing... Yet add space between the top and bottom border and the buttons suddenly start to scream at you.

Fascinating stuff really.


I still have to implement the different floor layers, and when that's done I'm packaging the first preview release so you all can try it out. I'm actually very curious what the different opinions will be.

[gimbal]

This project has been lagging for quite a while now... alas school got in the way, they had me coding applications for four different courses, the gits!

But I have much more time now so I've been putting in some good work again. Basically, layers are implemented and working, which means my first preview version is ready to be judged. I'll create a new topic for it when that time comes (sometime this week). In the mean time you may want to look at the updated todo list (the "done" list is growing quickly), and I've created a new screenshot because the editor has gone through some changes. Good ones, I hope.

http://users.insane-hq.org/~gimbal/mapmaker/mm_todo.html

Screenshot is from a maximized version just to get a good feeling for the app :) There is still some tinkering to do with spacing and such, but that stuff is easy compared to what I have already done... Also note the 'layers' tab, that contains a panel from which you can make each seperate layer in the floor visible or invisible (think photoshop, only mine is way uglier at the moment). Both the icon toolbar and the layers toolbar can be individually activated/deactivated and if you deactivate both the whole side panel simply disappears. Because of the tabbed layout of that panel I can easily cram in other toolbars if needed.


http://users.insane-hq.org/%7Egimbal/mapmaker/screens/devscreen03.png

[keropi]

good to see u still working on that! keep up the good works man! this tool is great! :great

[gimbal]

Just wait until you can try it before passing on the kudos ;) But thanks for the enthusiasm anyway :)