Annihilation - more artists wanted

[Graham Humphrey]

Although Marco has very kindly been doing the backgrounds for my shoot-em-up, he tells me he is currently very busy, so we could get this done a lot quicker if we get more people in to help out.

Basically, I need at least 1 person (the more the merrier) to help put together the sprites and the map tiles. There's not an awful lot more for me to say here, as Marco has done a pretty good job of covering this himself. He's written a Word document which outlines the basic concept of each individual level, so that hopefully the game can have a consistent look and feel to it. (Hopefully, Marco, it's OK for me to post the link!) You can find it at:

[edit:] obsolete link; edited by marco

If anyone is interested, or wants to know anything else, then please post it on this thread. Thanks!

EDIT: Could this thread be made sticky please?

[Marcuz]

i'm very ok with it; i have some particular sprite work for the game that i'll keep dear to myself, but we really need some help there.
the complete link for the work done, so that you can have an idea of what is required is this (http://www.marcopedrana-design.it/SecretStash/WorkInProgress.zip).
please use the included excel file to cross out the jobs you would like to take,
thanks!

[Graham Humphrey]

I'm still looking for artist-type people, by the way.... (hint, hint)

[z00mba]

It is possible to see the latest sprites and backgrounds?

[Marcuz]

Sorry Graham, i'm a little late in doing the stuff i had in mind as i have to solve an important node in workflow, (pc to amiga graphics with correct palettes) i fix that and then move on, so if nothing of real work comes my way, the next week 'll divide myself between Annihilation and Eye of the Beholder 5, 6, or whatever :)

in the meantime, a little asteroid.

these are NOT to be used, as palettes and sizes are not fixed yet.

also: do someone know any little 3d program that could be used to do some easy model to be exported as gif or something? i want to do little models of asteroids and particular enemies so to manage light and shadow on rotations and use them as templates to produce the actual graphic

edit: obsolete images removed

[Marcuz]

i've solved workflows problems and i've found a good wway to work the graphics from PC to Amiga :) and i'm very happy too about how they come with a simple 16 colours palette!
only thing is that with this pace we will never finish the game. so i call again for help, in particular there's need of someone to handle the enemies sprites. you can refer to my design guide for the project or you can make your own, in respect to the ambientation only. i'm taking care of the other sprites for the environment and of the between-levels screen.
i'm also considering to putting up a page on my site as a collector of all the stuff. i'll do it if the project goes on.
if you are working on pc, let me know if you need help in the workflow to amiga. i made a tutorial for myself, but i can polish it up and post it.

[Marcuz]

there are of course things i have to check on the palette consistency, it may be that i also will redo all the backgrounds AND the ship; i think there is a little redesign to do about the color key and tone to be coehernt.
this would be different if i actually had drawn instead of write about it :) you never end of learn!

[Marcuz]

time for a bit of update

after the last posts, i had a friendly e -mail excange with Graham and, while his engine is capable of handle a nice amount of things, it cannot do the things i would like it to do to pull me to draw them.
we agreed that it's better then if i leave sprites to someone else and i focus on the graphics between levels and on the intro and outro screens.
if you would like o blame someone, then blame me :) but i leave sprites.
so: it is more urgent than before the help of graphics guys to finish this game:
as far as i know, to be an effort of mainly a couple of guys in their spare time, this game can be a real real nice piece, even better than ancient commercial games! i say so because i'm immodest of course, but the game can be good.

from the scratch then, you, graphic guy/s, yes, YOU! DO YOU WANT TO HELP? :)

[Rebel-CD32]

I WILL HELP!

Can you send me any sprites or background blocks you have been working on, and any outlines you have and I will work out what I can. The links at the top of this thread don't work though.

I'm willing to put my project on hold for a while so I can help out a fellow Amigaman to complete this cool game. Currently I'm running UAE on my PC, and playtesting on an unexpanded CD32. I like working in limited colour palettes, mainly pixel work though because I don't have any 3D programs handy.

I'm on IRC in #abime.net , on MSN, and can check my email regularly if you can send me any files for me to work on. My email/MSN is camiraunit2 at hotmail.com (I got rid of the @ in case there's a spambot scanning email addresses).

[Graham Humphrey]

Thank you, that's kind of you to put your own game on hold for this. Sorry for posting a reply in your thread by the way (should have posted here!), as I said I haven't got the files with me at this moment, but, fingers crossed, within a few days I'll get them to you!

[Rebel-CD32]

No problem, mate. I'm looking forward to working on this now, as it's something I think I can do. I've made quite a few SEUCK and Backbone games in the past, but never finished any of them. I think working with someone else really helps with your motivation though, and this is a project that deserves to be finished.

If this game will end up playing on my CD32, it'll be great.

Have you got any music for the game yet? I'm sure there have got to be a bunch of mod composers on the forum, or perhaps email a few aminet mod contributers. As for sound effects, I can't really be of much help there, since I can't really make a laser sound. But if you need voice clips, I could have a go. I have a microphone on the PC so I should be able to record small audio clips through it. If you need a female voice (like Super Stardust), I could ask my girlfriend or my sister.

Is the game going to have an animated intro or a title screen or anything? What about a story? Any info you can give me will be a help, it'll get the ideas flowing.

Whenever you get the files, email or send them to me, and I'll get to work on them right away.

[Graham Humphrey]

Yep, someone's already done three mods for me, so I'm covered in that dept. As for the voices, I'm not sure I'll need that, but thanks for offering - I'll think about it.

BTW, as for the broken links, I've got the archive from that link anyway, so I'll e-mail it to you in a sec. A lot of the concept, story etc. is covered there.

[Marcuz]

sorry just seen the new posts now. Graham, if the originaal files are needed, i have still that archive, just i had to move it from the site when i redid it in the last months. let me know if you need it.
i wish you a good work, guys :)

[mrodfr]

Yep, someone's already done three mods for me, so I'm covered in that dept. As for the voices, I'm not sure I'll need that, but thanks for offering - I'll think about it.

BTW, as for the broken links, I've got the archive from that link anyway, so I'll e-mail it to you in a sec. A lot of the concept, story etc. is covered there.

Hello,

I have tested this game on my amiga. first It's PAL and a chance I have a SD/FF. first the game load and show a screen with instruction and fire to start. I push start and nothing. :-( need to swith back to voodoo screenmode and thats all.

[Graham Humphrey]

@Marco: Cheers, I still have the files and I've sent them to Rebel-CD32, so I don't need them yet. Thanks for the offer though :)

@mrodfr: Sorry to hear you're having probs, could you describe your exact setup?

[mrodfr]

hello,

I have AOS3.9bb2 with patches (mcp,blizzkick,kingcon,deficon,tooldeamons,....) and use mediator hardware with p96 and an dce SD/FF scanmagic.

I have tried a second time the game and maybe because I have autoenabled because switching to pal and the game allready start.

play a little and kill some ships and white screen.
hopefully, with muforce enabled, I have catched the hits.

attached here.

[mrodfr]

hello,

some questions, graham:

- why not using amiblitz 2.45 ???? (soon V2.51 betatested also by me)
- why not using thilo kholer amiblitz libs for making this game working on all screenmode (even gfx mode) ????
- why not joining the english amiblitz yahoogroups ML and discuss with thilo kholer for doing that with him ????

if you search gfx makers who haven't PAL screen on their classics amiga (like mine verry recently). It's better to found help if the game work on graphic card also IMHO.

[Graham Humphrey]

To be honest, I'm not sure if the problem is OS3.9 or the gfx card (or both?). I'll definitely try and find more playtesters with graphics cards.

As for your other points:

I've got Blitz 2.1 and the Blitz Support Suite installed, I guess it would be too much hassle to update it when I don't really need it. Is 2.45 fully compatible with 2.1? What else does it offer?

I should say that this is an AGA game, designed to use the AGA chipset of the Amiga, like an old commercial game. I don't have any plans currently to write a version that specifically supports all screenmodes and gfx cards, sorry. I'm really interested in using the classic Amiga hardware.

[mrodfr]

To be honest, I'm not sure if the problem is OS3.9 or the gfx card (or both?). I'll definitely try and find more playtesters with graphics cards.

As for your other points:

I've got Blitz 2.1 and the Blitz Support Suite installed, I guess it would be too much hassle to update it when I don't really need it. Is 2.45 fully compatible with 2.1? What else does it offer?

I should say that this is an AGA game, designed to use the AGA chipset of the Amiga, like an old commercial game. I don't have any plans currently to write a version that specifically supports all screenmodes and gfx cards, sorry. I'm really interested in using the classic Amiga hardware.

the problem is os3.9 or 060. I use the game on my amiga with PAL because I have also a sd/ff and a monitor with 2 inputs. It's not a gfx cards problem.

amiblitz 2.45 is fully compatible with 2.1. you have colors for instructions, new interface, deflibs and amigalibs corrected,.... see the attached picture.
the best for you is to install last version on aminet or on www.amiforce.de an see.

It's bad to would like to do a game for a gfx system available for few poeple. most use gfx cards and some of them have sd/ff. sure some allways have allways AGA but IMHO It's hard to found someone for GFX is this person know is for AGA only and he don't have AGA on his computer.

maybe you could look on the game and utility made by thilo kholer with blitz basic for gfx cards on his internet site: http://www.hd-rec.de/

[Graham Humphrey]

Actually, it's very likely to be an 060 problem, as I've read that Blitz 2.1 is unstable with an 060 (I use an 040).

Thanks for all the info about AmiBlitz, I may well give it a go soon.

[mrodfr]

hello,

OK. is blitz basic 2.1 unstable with 060, maybe the best is with amiblitz :-) yes, I know, I talk too much about amiblitz but I betatest and reports hits about actual version of amiblitz.

at least, download last version available on aminet. the version from the screenshot is beta actually but available on the beta site of the actual amiblitz programmer.

It's not possible to add a link (as the anhiliation archive) for the current gfx archive ???

[Graham Humphrey]

I was going to download it but Aminet is down! (Or at least I can't access it.) Typical eh?

What do you mean by current gfx archive? If you mean Marco's Work In Progress archive, I don't think that's up at the moment (might be an idea to put it online again actually Marco) :) .

[mrodfr]

hello,

the real source for amiblitz last release is:

http://www.amiforce.de/amiblitz/ab_downloads.php

there is also a new english amiblitz forum on the amiforce/forum part. there is also a yahoogroups amiblitz ML. ASK if you want to know the amiblitz beta site.

yes, the archive with the gfx for the game. would like to take a look.

[Graham Humphrey]

Thanks for the link. Graphics stuff in the zone.

[mrodfr]

hello,

just take a look of the gfx. don't know how found colors must be used on the game (ship, enemy, background,...)???.

[Marcuz]

ship: 4 colours (one of them transparent)
sprites 16 ( // )
bacgrounds 16

3 different palettes.
ship aside (right?), the palettes can change between the levels.
the palettes already done are in the iff images provided. a precisation: you cannot modify the backgrounds; you can of course throw them away and do yours, the same with the sprites already done by me, if used i only ask the graphic already done not to be modified. throw it away if you want so, or use it without mods :) thank you!

[Rebel-CD32]

Are we still following the guidelines from Marco's concept and design document and drawings? If we are, I've started and will try my best to set aside more time to work on it from today forward.

First level, space. Broken ships, wreckage, crustacean-like space animals?

[Graham Humphrey]

This isn't going to sound terribly helpful, but whatever's easier for you really. You don't have to follow it to the letter. If you have some ideas of your own feel free to use them. But if you want to stick to Marco's ideas then that's good too.

Basically, you're free to do it in any way you wish.

[Marcuz]

yes, on my account, if that was a concern, suit yourself.

[Mick_AKA]

As an artist I would really love to help but sadly I have zero experience with this type of graphical work :(

[Marcuz]

if your need is for a way to adapt modern hardware and software to amigga needs, i can help, as i worked pretty much a workflow. sadly there lacks a tutorial about to create consistent tiles or consistent design or do a part of actual pixelwork. these 3 things are kinda out of my abilities too.

[bippym]

Graham what method are you using for the backgrounds etc.. scrolling a huuge bitmap or tiles?

[Graham Humphrey]

I use tiles for the map graphics (16x16 pixels) which is what I'm after, I've got the actual backgrounds which are just a standard low-res screen that constantly scrolls. (The map gfx and the backgrounds are on separate playfields)

[bippym]

did you read the menace asm tutorial in amiga format?

There are a few good idea's and suggestions there (I can't draw for shit btw :P)

[Graham Humphrey]

Thanks. I've actually got a few parts of that here somewhere, as far as actually scrolling the maps go though that's pretty much sorted out, it's just getting the ever-elusive graphics that's the problem. Anyway I know absolutely no assembly language in the slightest so I can't really make head nor tail of the code (although the general concepts are the same I guess).

I know you can use asm in Blitz, it could well help with the speed of the game, but I don't think it's feasible for me currently.

[bippym]

asm isn't easiest thing to learn, but there are good tutorials and alot of good resources available (just pm me).

I plan to do a game in asm one day (gotta learn about amiga hardware properly first) and i'd like to see a quick shooter :)

[Graham Humphrey]

Cheers, PM sent!

[starlord]

is the annihilation project still running?

[Graham Humphrey]

See my PM :)

[Rebel-CD32]

Hey Graham. My PC is completely dead now, but I've got a laptop here to use now, so I wouldn't mind giving this another shot, if you're still interested.

I think I hesitated to start sooner because I'm not quite clear on exactly the sort of enemies to draw. How many, what size, what style you want to go for. I mean I have a bunch of ideas, but I need more direction, or a template to work from.

The last version of the game I installed on my PC and tried through UAE didnt work, although earlier versions did. I've also got my A1200 set up again now, but still have no way to transfer anything between the laptop and the Amiga. I'm working on getting a CF-IDE adapter though, which should help a bit.

Do you want this game to be a massive arcade quality game or a shareware quality game? Because I'm not sure how well I can draw horizontal spaceship sprites, but I do want to try.

[Graham Humphrey]

Hey Graham. My PC is completely dead now, but I've got a laptop here to use now, so I wouldn't mind giving this another shot, if you're still interested.

Definitely :) Good to hear from you again.

I think I hesitated to start sooner because I'm not quite clear on exactly the sort of enemies to draw. How many, what size, what style you want to go for. I mean I have a bunch of ideas, but I need more direction, or a template to work from.

Hmm, I should have a short design document written by Marco yonks ago around here somewhere, he came up with some cracking ideas, if I could dig that out would you like a copy of that? (Always assuming that's okay with Marco of course) IIRC it's not particularly strict; if you've got any ideas of your own then feel free to use them.

The last version of the game I installed on my PC and tried through UAE didnt work, although earlier versions did. I've also got my A1200 set up again now, but still have no way to transfer anything between the laptop and the Amiga. I'm working on getting a CF-IDE adapter though, which should help a bit.

Strange that it doesn't work in UAE, I'll have to give it a go soon.

Do you want this game to be a massive arcade quality game or a shareware quality game? Because I'm not sure how well I can draw horizontal spaceship sprites, but I do want to try.

I've got no set idea as to the quality of the graphics or anything; basically as good as you possibly can :)

Even if you don't think they'd be that good I'd still appreciate them. I don't want to put you under any pressure as to wanting them arcade-quality or whatever, I want you to have as much freedom as possible.

Thanks for digging this one up again, it's about time I wrote some code for this game again, this might just give me the incentive.

[Marcuz]

Hmm, I should have a short design document written by Marco yonks ago around here somewhere, he came up with some cracking ideas, if I could dig that out would you like a copy of that? (Always assuming that's okay with Marco of course) IIRC it's not particularly strict; if you've got any ideas of your own then feel free to use them.
sure it is ok with me, ans as Graham says, it is not meant to be restrictive.
i still have it somewhere on the pc, i'll dig it out from the archive if needed.

[Graham Humphrey]

Cheers Marco, I should still have all the stuff you sent me but I'll let you know if I can't find it ;)

[Graham Humphrey]

Hmm, it seems like "should have the stuff" translates as "I don't have the stuff"...

Any chance you could find the document and e-mail it to me again please? Many thanks!

[Marcuz]

sent at your email :)

[Graham Humphrey]

Cheers, I got it okay.

Give me a shout if you want a copy Rebel-CD32 :)

[Marcuz]

btw, Graham, if you eventually go past the colours and memory limitation, or allow me use a 4 colours on screen palette only, i would like to tackle some level...
huge objects on screen etc...

also, i would like to do a black and white only shot em up, if somebody is interested...

[Shoonay]

i would like to do a black and white only shot em up, if somebody is interested...Now THAT'S oldschool, baby! :D

[Graham Humphrey]

or allow me use a 4 colours on screen palette only

Just curious - why four colours?

[bippym]

I wanna see a proper 256 colour shmup :D

[Graham Humphrey]

Oh, almost forgot this...

also, i would like to do a black and white only shot em up, if somebody is interested...

That sounds rather intrguing, what exactly do you have in mind?

[Shoonay]

An noir shmup from the prohibition days :]

[Marcuz]

i was thinking of very few colours and objects on screen with a higher interaction and behaviour than the usual shmup.

why?

the enemies or obstacles would be more active in pursuing or move on screen, with no patterns or a number of patterns that would simulate an AI. there would be need for more response-effect then, in the number of the "events" (collision, explosions, other), so that the player would have the feeling of having effectively acted on the gameplay, or on its pattern.
this would call for suddden changes of the whole screen (for different reasons, the effects are similar in the game Astrosmash, on intellivision)
and effects of movement on the numbers and weapon display (think of the point counters in the Pinball illusion/fantasies games)

Add to this me wanting to use big objects on screen regularly, even more than half screen big, both colliding and not colliding.

then it comes to mind a few colour pattern, 2,3 or 4 colours on screen at time, maybe even on scale (like white, grey, black, + transparent) they could change (and should) on other colour-scale during the came, with sudden flashes or touches of a single colour not on scale.

i was thinking of a completely white background, with grey/black objects moving in, no details on the background at all. or maybe ok to the detail, so to have an easier feeling of movement... i would have to thinker on it a while, but i believe, not only it could work but it could be a very entertaining and original game :) at least it is in my head...

[Shoonay]

I'd say a complete white bkg would be an eye-killer, how about the negative of that? A completely black bkg (with black>gray stars/planets and other space objects, maybe?) with white objects? ;)

[Marcuz]

I'd say a complete white bkg would be an eye-killer, how about the negative of that? A completely black bkg (with black>gray stars/planets and other space objects, maybe?) with white objects? ;)
naa that's been overdone. besides, it hasn't to be a #ffffff kind of white.

however, i've decided to do some mock up. i'll do them this week in the spare time and start a different thread not to hi-jack Annihilation' :)

[Rebel-CD32]

Thanks, guys. Graham, if you could send me that document again that'd be great. Do you want the graphics to look realistic, cartoony, colourful? I can try beng versatile, I don't have my own style yet, so if you want to pick a game whose graphics you like, I can try and draw up something similar using the design rules you give me.

[Graham Humphrey]

I've sent you an e-mail with the file :)

It'll probably veer more towards realistic (not that you can have realistic aliens, but I think you know what I mean) rather than cartoony, given the bleak storyline to the game.

As for being colourful... well, it is limited to only 16 colours (15 really, colour 0 is transparent) for the aliens, map tiles, bullets, power-up icons, and explosions. I admit this isn't a lot but that's the limitations of using a dual-playfield mode in AGA (the background is on a separate playfield so it has its own palette, also the player's ship uses its own palette) and besides, doing a 256-colour scrolling shoot-em-up in Blitz isn't a clever idea, I reckon.

I don't think it would fit the game to be over-colourful though. I hope you can live with these limitations :)

Oh, and Marco, would you still be interested in doing cut-scenes and things like that (i.e. between levels, intro etc.)? You'll get 256 colours to play with then. ;)

[Marcuz]

Oh, and Marco, would you still be interested in doing cut-scenes and things like that (i.e. between levels, intro etc.)? You'll get 256 colours to play with then. ;)
sure, yes :)
just send me the specs for what you need. i would like to do something along the lines of the in-between of hired guns. but if you want something more tv-cartoon it's ok too, let me know
i need to know size, how many screens (the intros for the levels only or also game intro, outro etc)

[Graham Humphrey]

Thanks :)

Not sure about specs and stuff yet, if some level graphics get done then we can think about something that "ties in" with the game (i.e. a bit like the intro before each level of Project-X).

But also I would like a "proper" intro and outro too, obviously that would be several screens but I'll have to write the storyline out properly at some point so I know how many screens that would take.

[Graham Humphrey]

@Rebel-CD32:

Just wondering if you got my email the other day okay (the one with the design document attached) as I haven't heard from you since then, thanks!

[Rebel-CD32]

It's all good, I got it, thanks mate. I PMed you too.

[Graham Humphrey]

I know, I sent you one back ;)

[Calgor]

@Graham

How is this game going?

Also, how do you use the 16x16 tiles to scroll as the gaming area? I understand you can scroll a whole bitmap (like the background), but are there any code examples you have to scroll the 16x16 tiles as you move around? Just wondering if the 16x16 tiles are organised onto a bitmap, which is then scrolled around.

[Graham Humphrey]

It's not going badly at the moment, there's a lot happening "behind the scenes" ;) That's all I will say for now...

As for the scrolling (I'm not very good at explaining these things so bear with me), what I tend to do is when the screen has scrolled 16 pixels is to place the same column of tiles either side of the screen (just to the left and to the right so you can't see it), so when the end of the bitmap is reached, the offset is reset to 0 (or whatever you want the extreme visible left-hand side to be) and as the blocks have been blitted on both sides of the bitmap you don't notice the jump back to the left-hand side, so it gives the illusion of continuous scrolling.

I hope that makes sense; as for example code I'll try and dig some out later on.

[Calgor]

I think I get part of it, the code example would be great. My understanding is you could do something like this, but doesn't sound the same as your description:

Say you have a horizontal scroller, where each letter represents a 16x16 tile.

AB|CDEF|GH

CDEF are currently visible.

Then the player moves to the right of screen:

ABC|DEFG|H

Then you reset the offset:

BC|DEFG|HA

Then you replace the A tile with the next new tile:

BC|DEFG|HI

Is this similar to what you were saying, and will it work?

[Codetapper]

I don't think that's quite right. There are 2 things here, positions and tiles. In your example you have a screen width that is twice the maximum width, so for interests sake we will say there are 8 positions 1-8. You are currently viewing ABCD on the screen and the x's are just random crap for the time being:

|ABCD|xxxx

You want to copy the next set of tile data into 2 positions, into the next scroll position on the right hand side, and once A has scrolled off the screen, we erase A with E. We can't erase A just yet as if you do, the tiles on the far left of the screen will change too early:

|ABCD|Exxx Put the new tile E on the right
A|BCDE|xxx Scroll
E|BCDE|Fxx Copy E over A, and put the new tile F on the right
EB|CDEF|xx Scroll
EF|CDEF|Gx Copy F over B, and put the new tile G on the right
EFC|DEFG|x Scroll
EFG|DEFG|H Copy G over C, and put the new tile H on the right
EFGD|EFGH| Scroll
EFGH|EFGH| Copy H over D
|EFGH|EFGH Reset the pointers so we are back at the first block

Now you can scroll to the right "forever" and only use 2 screen widths of memory.

[Graham Humphrey]

Thanks Codetapper, you've explained it better than I could.

@Calgor

I'll try and dig something out code-wise today, if not I'll just knock an example out myself... I hope Blitz Basic is okay ;)

[Graham Humphrey]

Right, I managed to find a very simple example that comes with Blitz Basic 2.1 that demonstrates map scrolling. I've put it in the Zone if you're interested, Calgor, and includes the Blitz source code, the code in ASCII format and an executable file compiled from the code. Enjoy ;)

[Calgor]

Thanks heaps guys. I understand codetapper's explanation, from which I now understand Graham's! So that would work for a never ending one-way scrolling.
I will go through the blitz basic source code which seems so much smaller than I imagined (I am coding in C). I will be trying to do 8-way scrolling to which it seems I will need to use a different method, but I will open a new thread if I have any more questions.

[Joe Maroni]

Right, I managed to find a very simple example that comes with Blitz Basic 2.1 that demonstrates map scrolling. I've put it in the Zone if you're interested, Calgor, and includes the Blitz source code, the code in ASCII format and an executable file compiled from the code. Enjoy ;)

this is not the best way of mapscrolling...:sad

don´t forget to double buffering the screen for smooth scrolling.

i never saw this thread before..if you need any help i would offer it...;)

believe me, i have much experience with maps in amiga games...:laughing

[Graham Humphrey]

What, help for scrolling, or graphics? I've got the scrolling sorted anyway ;)

And yes, I know, but it is only an example (I didn't say it was the best ;)) - double-buffering's not difficult to add, anyway.