Zool 2 AGA slowdowns

[Jerry]

My whdload version of Zool 2 Aga slows down badly. The first noticable slowdown is in the title screen when the big zool logo appears from the bottom of the screen. The game itself becomes unplayable because of this. I tried different tooltypes but 'til now to no effect. I'm running it on A1200 with 68030/50 with 8MB fastram. Any ideas?

[keropi]

have u tried to disable the caching of chipmem? this helped the jerkiness with my bppc card...

[Jerry]

Yes, already tried that and a bunch of other options, but with no luck at all. Interestingly the same problems appear on a 68040 as I just tested. The framerate seems to drop to half in most areas ingame. Probably inserted blitwaits or whatever. I found an old jst or dos version on my hd that works fine, so I'll use this one in the meantime and try the ecs version of Zool 2.

[keropi]

are u running any "strange" progs on wbstartup?

[Jerry]

No,
the problem remains even if I start with no startup-sequence and only setpatch for the aga recognization. I'd like to try it on 68020 but it won't load with chipram only.

[Mad-Matt]

you could try EXPCHIP tooltype which would mke the game try to use chipmem only. due to the game needing tht whole chipmem however it may not work out to to the workbench using chipmem already and you may also need to disable preload tooltype.

it is normal for the game and many others to be glitchy on an 040 due to really slow communication between 040 and chipmem with caches disabled.

Id have thaught it should run properly on 030/50 as it maches the config (I belive) that codetapper used to install the game.

Are you using the very latest whdload and latest zool2 slave ?

[Jerry]

Interestingly EXPCHIP works but doesn't improve on the problem. Can anyone verify this problem or is it just me? I use the 1.0 slave and whdload 16.4 so that shouldn't be the problem. I have to try the ecs version later

[mr_a500]

I noticed a slowdown in the ECS version (on a 33Mhz 020) - in the title screen and when there are lots of objects moving on the screen. I wonder if the slave is as optimized as it could be. I've seen a few slow games speed up drastically when a new slave was released.

[Jerry]

Well, I tried the ECS version and it runs a lot better than the AGA version with no slowdown in the title screen and only a few slowdowns when there are a lot of objects moving which I think I remember from my original dos installed version.

[haynor]

After some years problem exists. Any solution :confused

[jotd]

I think that slowdowns are possible when whdload slave inserted blitterwaits for faster machines, but if you don't have a very fast machine, it may slow down. I had to make blitwaits optional for Shadow of the Beast slave update.

[Anemos]

For me is ok on the ZOOL screen,and good playable.
i use it on A1200 ,blizz 30/50 64mb ,and Classic WB 22F,default tool types set.

[laser]

My whdload version of Zool 2 Aga slows down badly. The first noticable slowdown is in the title screen when the big zool logo appears from the bottom of the screen. The game itself becomes unplayable because of this. I tried different tooltypes but 'til now to no effect. I'm running it on A1200 with 68030/50 with 8MB fastram. Any ideas?

you can try the cd32 version of zool 2 using idefix cd32 emulator,
it's better than the normal disk version cause it have cdda music,you can play with music+sound effects,also it have more levels than the disk version

[haynor]

Anemos, I'm playing on A1200 030 16Mb Fast and also WB3.1 but I try CD32 version with emulator since WHD version is really unplayable.

JOTD, I know that blitterwaits can cause this but this is AGA game so probably blitterwaits are not used at least in AGA version.

[Graham Humphrey]

I had a problem with this on my '040 ages ago (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29319l).

Is it not a problem exclusive to the '040 after all then?

[AMIGAZ]

I had a problem with this on my '040 ages ago (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=29319l).

Is it not a problem exclusive to the '040 after all then?

Nope, both 68040 and 68060 CPU equipped systems are affected

[Galahad/FLT]

I would imagine the problem is a blitter problem.

040 and 060 run faster than the blitter, hence the slowdowns. Only way to cure it would be to recode some of the blitter routines to utilise the processor instead.

[haynor]

Hmm, what about 030 processor?

[Graham Humphrey]

That's what I was trying to get at, if it's doing it on slower processors too it might be a problem with the slave I guess? And not just the normal 040 slowdown problem...

[haynor]

I was thinking about JOTD option. Maybe it's possible to add option with/without blitterwaits (if there are any in AGA version). It's time to contact with Codetapper.:)

[Galahad/FLT]

Well if the game does it normally on disk, which I would suspect it does, it'll 100% be down to blitter waits.

The AGA version has extra background stuff, which means more blitting required, so the problem is simple, the AGA blitter is the same speed as the ECS one, but is expected to do more, and because the processor runs faster, its having to wait until the blits have finished.

[Boo Boo]

you can try the cd32 version of zool 2 using idefix cd32 emulator,
it's better than the normal disk version cause it have cdda music,you can play with music+sound effects,also it have more levels than the disk version

Yes this works for me -No slowdown - Im pretty sure it can be run from HD as well - But you wont get the cdda music.

[haynor]

Well, looks I'm forced to use CD32 version or DOS install of this game.

[blade002]

I would imagine the problem is a blitter problem.

040 and 060 run faster than the blitter, hence the slowdowns. Only way to cure it would be to recode some of the blitter routines to utilise the processor instead.

Yeah Team Hoi kind of mention that in their demo Mindwarp at the start that the Blitter in the AGA machines is pretty much the same one that is present in the ECS machines and that by adding a faster CPU it can actually hold the Blitter back if the routines don't work the problem.

[Galahad/FLT]

Yeah Team Hoi kind of mention that in their demo Mindwarp at the start that the Blitter in the AGA machines is pretty much the same one that is present in the ECS machines and that by adding a faster CPU it can actually hold the Blitter back if the routines don't work the problem.

Had the same problem when I did a WHDLoad fix for Symbiosis Gameboy Simulator, had to rewrite the end scroller to use CPU not blitter as it was jerking all over the place.

Pretty piss poor of Commodore to increase the range of bitplanes, and then lump the AGA machines with the same poxy speed blitter to chuck more around! :banghead

I 'suppose' they assumed people would simply start using the CPU for stuff and that the blitter was included for backwards compatibility, but they knew that most programmers banged the hardware directly, so bloody shortsighted of them.

The AAA chipset was supposed to be something remarkable..... I do wonder sometimes! :rolleyes

[blade002]

Had the same problem when I did a WHDLoad fix for Symbiosis Gameboy Simulator, had to rewrite the end scroller to use CPU not blitter as it was jerking all over the place.

Pretty piss poor of Commodore to increase the range of bitplanes, and then lump the AGA machines with the same poxy speed blitter to chuck more around! :banghead

I 'suppose' they assumed people would simply start using the CPU for stuff and that the blitter was included for backwards compatibility, but they knew that most programmers banged the hardware directly, so bloody shortsighted of them.

The AAA chipset was supposed to be something remarkable..... I do wonder sometimes! :rolleyes

That must have been a bitch to do the rewrite, so i do not envy you there but i respect you for your efforts :)

And YES that was EXTREMELY piss poor of Commodore to supply the same blitter as earlier machines because as you said, most programmers hit the hardware and if Commodore were completely honest with themselves they would come to realise that part of what made the Amiga special were those very programmers that made the Amiga as successful as it was! They completely dropped the ball with that one! :mad

As for AAA, i was so excited about that when i saw it first announced and i used to read some pretty incredible things about what it was going to be able to do in our local ACAR magazine ( Australian Commodore & Amiga Review ) here, but then Commodore went under as we all know and i was one hell of a depressed guy for quite some time because the loss of the Amiga of course and never being able to see the AAA fully realised :sad

[Cammy]

Now we can look forward to the Natami with its SuperAGA and mega fast Blitter!

Oh, and Zool 2 WHDLoad has the same slowdown problems on my A1200 030/50. I have a CD32 though, so I just play the game on that. Still, if it was fixed, I'd love to have the game on my A1200 too (and not just the OCS version).

[Erasmus Darwin]

Slowdowns are usually the mechanics of the brain not interpreting the electric signals properly, one should think there might be enough to transfer but there is not.

[haynor]

Now we can look forward to the Natami with its SuperAGA and mega fast Blitter!

Oh, and Zool 2 WHDLoad has the same slowdown problems on my A1200 030/50. I have a CD32 though, so I just play the game on that. Still, if it was fixed, I'd love to have the game on my A1200 too (and not just the OCS version).


Right now I've burned tosec iso and I'm going to play on my CD32 since I don't have CD with my A1200. Too bad I don't have RGB from my CD32 :(

[Boo Boo]

Dont Know where it came from but theres a version its a bit shit;) in the Zone and works fine on my A1200-HD with no SlowDown.

[haynor]

I will check this one on my A1200 with 030 processor, I hope it will works. Thanks :)

[Boo Boo]

When I zipped it in windows this stopped it from working so ill have to use LHA from WinUae:(

[DDNI]

it runs on my real A1200. It is a different level order than the one in KGs packs. The colours look ECS too....?

[Boo Boo]

Good it works for you - Its defently the CD32 version - The first world I think is the extra CD32 Level

[DDNI]

Good it works for you - Its defently the CD32 version - The first world I think is the extra CD32 Level

Aaah OK! The game is certainly faster than the A1200 AGA whdload install

[haynor]

But it looks like cd32 pad is needed (I have one somewhere but I prefer joystick) because after logo pressing fire button does not starting game. Problem with 030 proc. or pad is really needed ?

[DDNI]

I am using a CD32 pad...

[haynor]

Hopefully I've found my own HD version maded from floppy disks not from CD32 and it works.

[girv]

Pretty piss poor of Commodore to increase the range of bitplanes, and then lump the AGA machines with the same poxy speed blitter to chuck more around! :banghead

Didn't they implement 32 bit fetch modes for more speed?

[Galahad/FLT]

Didn't they implement 32 bit fetch modes for more speed?

Doesn't give anywhere near the speed increase needed to cope with the extra data.

[Boo Boo]

Hopefully I've found my own HD version maded from floppy disks not from CD32 and it works.

Does it work ok? I hadnt checked but ive also got this version.
This version works without slowdown on my A1200/030/HD but I prefure the CD32 Joypad.
It also has a CrackTro and Trainer.

This fixes Hoodlums pathetic crack of Zool II AGA
so that it now works 100% on all memory configs
and installs to HardDrive correctly.
The way the game was cracked prevented it from working
on AGA machines with fast memory, and running from HD
on certain machines was a NO NO.
Note to Black Cat: To be competitive in this 'scene'
means fast / quality cracks, if you can foul up on a
crack as EASY as this then you may as well give up
cracking NOW.
Just copy the file z2 to disk 1 for a quality crack
.

I only had a quick test and it seems to work ok run from WHDload Workbench install so you can even have a quit key.:)

[haynor]

ECS version maybe but AGA has terrible slowdowns due to blitter waits. This probably fixes game for 040 and higher but other hand game is unplayble on 030.

[Boo Boo]

I wasnt sure if you got a working version - I put the cracked AGA install of Zool 2 in the zone.:xmas

[haynor]

Yes, I have second - fixed but mine has decompressed main exe. Game still have some small slowdowns but after now you can play.