WHDLoad compilation CDs on eBay [Archive]

girv

08 March 2005, 02:29

Narked of Northern Ireland writes:

I see CDs like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3545&item=8173524441&rd=1) on eBay all the time - some guy has downloaded a bunch of JST & WHD installers, whipped up a quick index page and cheesy label, burned the lot to CD-R and is now charging for the privilege of using it. This narks me right off as he's profiting from work that I and, to a much greater extent, JOTD, Wepl and JST / WHD patch authors have done in our spare time for free.

Can I do anything to stop the sale of such items? Or should I just lighten up and worry about something important instead :) ?

dlfrsilver

08 March 2005, 03:59

Hi John,

Just report to ebay this guy is selling programs he's not allowed to sell on ebay.
Tell them you are one of the guys who create these installers.
Others Whdload programmers should join with you to charge this guy and then Ebay should remove and obliterate this "illegal and inadequate" auction.

cheers !!

Akira

08 March 2005, 06:13

I reported it, saw it bfore reading the thread! I hope the auciton gets cancelled, the more reports it eceives, teh greater chancs of this happening.

TheBoss

08 March 2005, 09:33

Very dissapointed in how some Amiga fans behave! :mad

Methanoid

08 March 2005, 10:32

Akira

08 March 2005, 15:01

Actually what is MOST disappointing is how slow and lackadaisical Ebay is in responding to this sort of stuff. It happens ALL the time..... How easy did you find to get the link to report it? 10 minutes? 15 minutes?

Why not have a "Report this listing as violating Ebay policies" link on each listing?
Indeed man. The report process is a pain in the arse, definitely NOT straightforward. It seems like they don't give a fuck unless you are a part of the VERO program.

The CD32-200 discs I reported probably got sold and all before they were taken down. They cancelled the least "un-legit" of the 3 auctions immediately but left the completely pirate shits alive. WTF?

Methanoid

08 March 2005, 16:07

What it needs is some (c) owner to name Ebay in an action for failing to make sufficient effort to remove pirate items.

I'm not claiming to be anti-piracy per se but the idea of flogging other peoples work is quite insulting to them. If there is ANY money to be made from old games (and I doubt it) then it must go to those who wrote them (and similar with WHDLoad patches).

Akira

08 March 2005, 17:12

I think exactly like you in this subject.

Firthy2002

08 March 2005, 18:16

It's disgraceful.

sarek2k

08 March 2005, 18:20

Ebay pisses me off big time if it's any corporate piracy (ie anything by M$ or Hollywood) they jump straight on it when it's the little guys getting ripped off they don't give a toss! not to mention all the dodgy HK goods that are sold that are quite clearly fakes if u get them at all!

bippym

08 March 2005, 18:55

Guess i'll have to chuck my demodvd on there :P

icewizard2k5

09 March 2005, 01:07

"Will work with virtually your whole game collection"

:blased yeh ok...

as for the cheek of doing the cd.. yeh this guys an arse.
but you also gotta think for a minute, all the installers are accessible for FREE download on the net. you need the net to access ebay. so you if purchased the cd youre a dumb fuck. :laughing

whdload rules register today!

Peanutuk

09 March 2005, 01:39

If you are a VERO member you get an email address and a phone number direct to a human who deals with the issue within hours. If you enter your query into the web based submission process your email gets added to which ever worldwide ebay division, in your language, has the shortest backlog. Most of the time a backlog is a at least 5 days, by that time, as the above have mentioned, most auctions have ended.

Maybe a potential project for an amiga enthusiast is to contact individual programmers or copyright owners in order to register their claims to the programs that are being abused? You could then quickly and legitimately act on their behalf to stop pirates making a profit out of their crimes. After all, for all the usefulness of pirates and 'crackers' without the original programmers there wouldn' t be anything to crack; they are the people to be celebrated and defended.

EmuChicken

09 March 2005, 17:22

Totally takes teh piss.. Soon as I saw that ebay page me = disgusted...

If its illegal pirate MS products I wouldnt give a flying !u&* ... Its just the amount of effort by a handfull of people is going out the window to some stupid guy cashing in , it takes the pish - lock him up!

girv

09 March 2005, 17:44

A new auction has appeared here. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3545&item=8176117138&rd=1)

I've contacted eBay. Breath is not being held :rolleyes

Big-Byte

09 March 2005, 18:32

If you look at the other items the guy is selling then there is a fair chance that the guy doesnt anything about the Amiga - to him its probably just another DVD.

Im seen stalls at many computer fairs with exactly the same 'products' - a mixture of budget titles / educational titles and dubious titles (phone unlocker software / free internet tv etc..) as what he is selling so I think there is probably some wholesaler somewhere who is selling mixed lots of these titles to people who dont have a clue!

girv

09 March 2005, 18:47

Got a reply from the guy:

Please tell me more as I am buying them from a company called Butterfly Media who assured me that all publisher rights had been cared for, and if they were not I would not sell the software, so please supply me with all your details and I will approach Butterfly Media. Regards

The plot thickens...

EmuChicken

09 March 2005, 19:02

You mean the manufacturers of the DVDs? What an idiot!

http://www.butterflymedia.com/webfiles/p_dvdr.asp

oh wait, heres another looks more like it
http://www.butterfly-media.co.uk/PRODUCTS.htm

alexh

09 March 2005, 19:26

If you didnt already know this is a pheonix of the UK Amiga retailer (and quite famous) Epic.

http://www.amigastuff.co.uk/index.htm

Beware: Everything they sell is CD-R / DVD-R even old CD32 titles.

Peanutuk

09 March 2005, 19:43

This ebay seller seems to be getting rather annoyed with people like yourselves :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3545&item=8176394240&rd=1

sarek2k

09 March 2005, 19:48

Hey Alex was just looking at this thread and yeah know what you mean about pheonix (Epic in Amiga mags) and i thought the graphics / style of the ebay adverts looked familiar :)

i have no problem with ppl selling on a copy they've bought and got bored with but not 10 copies and then another 10 ;)

Akira

09 March 2005, 20:25

This ebay seller seems to be getting rather annoyed with people like yourselves :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3545&item=8176394240&rd=1
The fuck wih that guy. That shit iis illegal everywhere, even in HMV.

sarek2k

09 March 2005, 20:47

DUPLICATED or COPIED EMULATOR MEDIA IS ILLEGAL YES!!
This one is NEITHER.

ha ha it's getting funny now lol:)

as far as i remeber you are not allowed to sell roms on the same media as the emulator wheather it be silver masterd disc or 20p cdr media it's exactly the same thing putting a fancy label on it dosent make it legal. Also just about every coder who makes an emulator dosen't want it distributed with roms!

EmuChicken

10 March 2005, 00:02

hey! Amigastuff looks EXACTLY like www.amigagames.co.uk (http://www.amigagames.co.uk) (NOTE - NOT the great forum! amigagames.com!)

And if anyone wants to try somet... its possible to order MINUS copies, so you'd infact GAIN money from these robbing bast**s!

*note- HMV DID sell these cd's, both the Amiga, C64, and Spectrum ones

icewizard2k5

10 March 2005, 00:43

"DUPLICATED or COPIED EMULATOR MEDIA IS ILLEGAL YES!!
This one is NEITHER."

Geez this dude is a fuckhead. what the fuck does it mean duplicated or copied??

that would apply if you bought a commercially licensed emulator such as Amiga Forever but it seems to me that these cds of his are just downloaded and burnt at home.

are we sposed to think its a legit cd becuase it has a fuckin sticker on it??

i bet if you bought this emulator product the first message you'd get when you booted it up would be
"NOT FOR SALE OR DISTRIBUTION WITH ROMS"

dipshit :nuts:nuts:nuts:nuts:mad:mad

alexh

10 March 2005, 00:53

I think he's trying to claim they are "silver" ones.

Firthy2002

10 March 2005, 01:15

Getting some silvers pressed ain't exactly difficult.

Peanutuk

10 March 2005, 01:28

He's full of crap like the rest of them. Chances are he has no idea what he is selling and is merely reselling anything that those 'drop shippers' will supply. If people keep complaining he will be suspended for repeatedly relisting items that he has been warned not to list. Once removed all previous closed auctions are removed from the site too.

Akira

10 March 2005, 01:43

I hope he does get suspended

girv

14 March 2005, 03:23

OK so I've got a couple of WHDLoad installers ready for release, but I'd like to release them with a licence that prohibits distribution on sold-for-profit compilation CDs like these ones while still allowing free distribution otherwise.

Any suggestions for the wording? I have some in mind but I'd like to hear others' ideas first :)

sarek2k

14 March 2005, 03:27

yeah like "NOT TO BE SOLD ON EBAY AT ANY COST!"
that would be the best start! and paste it all over the files :)

girv

14 March 2005, 03:38

oooh, subtle :)

Akira

14 March 2005, 04:37

Or
"NOT TO BE SOLD BY CUNTS ON EBAY. PROSECUTION AND CASTRATION WILL BE ENFORCED."

:lol

I'm not mcuh into legal terms but my girl's parents are lawyers and I can ask them if you want.

Have you checked any of the Creative Commons licenses? I think WHDLoad installers should be released under one of their licenses, see if they have one for you or any WHDLoad nistall maker to use:
http://creativecommons.org/

woody57

14 March 2005, 04:54

How about " If you paid for this file you have been CONNED " nobody likes to think they have been made a fool of ;)

Methanoid

14 March 2005, 12:50

This listing (8176394240) has been removed by eBay or is no longer available. Please make sure that you've entered the item number correctly.

YES! Anyone remember his username and we can police all his auctions!

TheBoss

14 March 2005, 13:09

YEY EAB wins today :cool

Akira

14 March 2005, 17:47

Cool stuff
the listing will appear again probably, so keep those eyes peeled.

EmuChicken

15 March 2005, 00:36

Definately involve castration!

Castration + law = lots of trouble :-D

alexh

15 March 2005, 10:49

He's not listening

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3545&item=8176117138&rd=1

TheBoss

15 March 2005, 10:50

Grrr report him again! :mad

Methanoid

15 March 2005, 11:29

Anyone like his response to my innocent question?? I bet he wont "publish" the followup!! I pointed out that at least ONE author was NOT asked,

Yes, I think he should be reported.....

Methanoid

15 March 2005, 13:00

FYI:

ME: "Because I happen to know one (at least) of the authors of several of these patches has NOT been asked permission and isn't very impressed. Whilst I am sure it is sealed and boxed I am not so sure it respects the rights of authors. Is Butterfly Media Ltd in any way related to Epic Marketing? This might explain things somewhat..."

HIM "Not sure but I have emailed Butterfly Media and are yet to get a reply, I am thinking of dumping them as they have not got back to me."

I wonder if he'll sell all his stock on Ebay first :(

tin

15 March 2005, 14:35

think butterfly are operating as a dropshipper now sho probably hasn't got any stock.

Mind you knowing how dodgy butterfly/epic whatever are I wouldn't trust them to dropship my stuff I sold anyway!

girv

15 March 2005, 16:04

@Akira: thanks for the Creative Commons links, thats just what I was looking for :great

FWIW the Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/) version is what I'm thinking of using from now on. Still need to read the legal fine print though :rolleyes

From eBay:
...[the] supplying company is called, Butterfly Media Ltd, who are drop shippers of this product, they assure me and anyone else who sells this product on their behalf that is genuine, sealed and boxed and that all publishers rights are looked after...

Who is compiling, sealing and boxing this product? Thats what I need to know as they are the actual copyright infringers, I think, although I guess Butterfly and their sub-resellers oughta be liable for something. I've emailed Butterfly asking for these details.

Maybe I (or some other generous soul) should buy one of the CD-ROMs to check what the contents are and also prove that they are selling them commercially. PayPal donations to payments at girvnet dot org dot uk ;) (just kidding)

girv

18 March 2005, 21:06

Well no reply as yet :rolleyes No surprise either.

Attached is a modified form of the Creative Commons licence I'm thinking of using from now on. Its lawyer-speak for:
- you can install your game ;)
- you can freely copy and distribute the unmodified installer archive
- you cannot make profit or any material gain from distribution
- you cannot add/remove/modify licence terms with a distribution
- you cannot make/distribute compilations including the installer archive
- you cannot distribute just the installed game
- there are no guarantees
- you can't sue me

All conditions can of course be modified by agreement with the original author (me!).

Comments welcome...

Akira

18 March 2005, 22:35

@Akira: thanks for the Creative Commons links, thats just what I was looking for :great
Kickass...

Would be GREAT if the whole WHDLoad team and the WHDLoad install makers would adopt similar licenses to avoid this kind of shit, or to be able to start proper legal actions whenever these things happen. Seems like this butterfly media shit is a big fiend to the project and should be "prosecuted to the full extent of the jam", as my good friend Donpachi would say ;D

By the way, 'you cannot distribute just the installed game' means stuff like KillerGorilla's project is not allowed?

Can't comment any further, the license seems pretty spot-on, modified and all. Creative Commons is great, told ya ;) I know I've got to pick up a license for my music.

Methanoid

18 March 2005, 23:03

All looks good to me and KG can easily get permission if he asks.

BTW, it would be just as well to say "without permission from me or my representative, in this case Bert Jahn" if WHDload authors chose to allow Bert to act on their behalf. In that case KG or whoever could ask ONE person for permissions for all Whdloads???

Akira

18 March 2005, 23:17

That is, if ALL WHDLoad work starts to be distributed under this license. For now girv is the only whd ptch author implementing it.

killergorilla

19 March 2005, 04:58

Codetapper

19 March 2005, 07:40

To be honest I don't think it will make jack difference. These fuckwits will still sell their CD's on EBay, EBay will still take just as long to look into reported auctions, the person auctioning the CD's will not see the readme containing this legal mumbo-jumbo etc...

girv

19 March 2005, 12:25

@killergorilla: you, of course, get an exemption :) which I, of course, can revoke at any time ;) Basically I dont mind so long as I get credit for the work and you're not selling it. The restrictions arent targetted at community projects like yours but rather the rip-off companies.

@Methanoid: good idea re: appointed representatives.

@Codetapper: You're right of course, but if I do ever decide to take action (which I might) I'm now making sure its from a sound legal footing. Its a sad state of affairs but these "people" (for want of a better word) are taking advantage of me, you, Bert and the rest and it makes me mad :mad I'm not doing much, but I'm doing something ... feel free to join in :)

Akira

19 March 2005, 18:26

To be honest I don't think it will make jack difference.Yes, it does, from a legal standpoint, you released your work with a license that explicitly avoids selling it in these shit CDS and you can start legal actions with the right foot, and probably win against those fuckers.

Don't underestimate the power of the licenses and all this legal mumbo-jumbo! I know it's shit we skip when agreeing but in these cases they are lifsavers for the cretors of the stuff, in this case, WHDLoad patches.

I would be terribly happy if the whole WHDLoad team start including girv's or a similar license to avoi fuckheaads to sell the crap on eBay.
With this license you can even sue eBay for letting theseauctions go on even after many reports.