What's this new WHDLoad + CAPS plan then? [Archive]

MethodGit

04 January 2005, 02:03

Anyone who's examined recent WHDLoad install releases as of late will notice a new file - CAPSID - and supported versions now being referred to by their CAPS ID number. One would assume this is the start of a new plan to migrate the CAPS phenomenon to an even greater degree with our favourite HDizer.

I'm pretty sure fiath, Codetapper or any of the other key WHDLoad/CAPS people can freely explain this one then? It doesn't appear to have been mentioned already on this board.

fiath

04 January 2005, 08:11

Nice. I didn't know the WHDLoad guys were doing that.

girv

04 January 2005, 08:56

@MethodGit: Which installs have done this that you know of?

killergorilla

04 January 2005, 09:40

Ah this is VERY interesting indeed...

Should make it very nice for 100% installs from now on. And people without the original disks will be able to put forward bug reports if they have the corresponding CAPS image! :great

MethodGit

04 January 2005, 17:49

@MethodGit: Which installs have done this that you know of?Checking the recent archives, it looks like just a few of them have adopted some kind of CAPSID plan - Dune, Prince Of Persia, The Humans and Great Courts/Pro Tennis Tour.

Seems like the Yahoo WHDLoad board doesn't explain it much, either. :confused

killergorilla

04 January 2005, 17:51

From my installing it's just really a check to show which images work with the install. Nothing more really.

I always use CAPS when I can, and it's a great help knowing the caps images are getting such great support recently. The two projects compliment each other superbly.

jotd

04 January 2005, 22:29

I think I should shed light on this CAPSID file

I just made that up (all installs mentionned are by me), for me and also for the users, so they are sure to install the game if they've got the proper CAPS image. I like CAPS ID because this is really unique (names are not unique, HOL has got some duplicate entries same game with/without spaces, etc...)

I never talked to anyone about this CAPSID file because I don't like to impose stuff to other coders. But if they want to join, well, that would be for the best.

I intend to create this file for each install update, and possibly find a way to automate creation for existing installs.

Wepl

05 January 2005, 11:01

I will try to include the CAPS-ID in future releases but usually I dont have CAPS images or there are several game versions supported which aren't in CAPS yet. So this is usually not easy to do or at least an extra effort.

IFW

05 January 2005, 14:43

Pretty cool imho, well done guys! :)

Galahad/FLT

12 January 2005, 06:32

I've just added CAPS IPF ID and image support.

Hellbent, Ski or Die plus a few others are all able to use CAPS images

Akira

12 January 2005, 13:49

so this means, that if I had the corresponding IPF, I could make a whd install from this image instead of messing around with disks?

Grand. :D

IFW

12 January 2005, 14:50

You could do that for years, you just had to find out which version was that.

Akira

12 January 2005, 15:10

I thought WHD would only install from physical disk drives...

IFW

12 January 2005, 15:35

Ok maybe I am a bit late then, so new installs can actually use ipfs natively?

Murakami

12 January 2005, 17:33

I don't use physical disks for a long time. I use adf or dms files with a rad: disk. It's a lot faster than disk access.
IPF support would be another real plus.

Akira

12 January 2005, 17:48

I don't use physical disks for a long time. I use adf or dms files with a rad: disk.
Yest his is nice and all for CRACKED images, but we're talking originals here. rad or ff0 wont work with originals.

Murakami

12 January 2005, 20:02

I disagree. It works for somme original games. I've done it for Monkey Island 1 & 2, Elvira 2...

Akira

12 January 2005, 20:37

All that uncopyprotected stuff, yes.. But these are few.

killergorilla

12 January 2005, 20:40

No they cannot use ipfs natively, you still have to insert them with winuae but it's very good knowing which ones support which ipfs.

Cheers guys.

Psygore

12 January 2005, 20:45

I thought WHD would only install from physical disk drives...
Some months ago, I've created a little tool to convert ipf to wwarp's file.
If the install uses RawDIC, it can create image disk directly from file.
RawDIC2.2 supports mfmwarp/wwarp/adf files.

If DIC are used, you can create adf via wwarp :)

In a near future, RawDIC will support ipf files.

Psygore

12 January 2005, 20:55

All that uncopyprotected stuff, yes.. But these are few.
Nope :)
If the disk has dos tracks and if there is a (or several) mfm track for the protection, DIC will skip this track.
So if you have an adf (without the track protection), it can be installed with whdload :)

Galahad/FLT

13 January 2005, 07:49

At the moment, until RawDIC supports IPF files natively, there is a simply conversion process that you do in WinUAE by converting the .IPF files to MFMWarp files.

Rawdic 2.2 can decode these files without having to be written to floppy. The conversion process is quite painless, and most people with access to .IPF files, have access to a PC with a decent version of WinUAE.

After downloading Hellbent.IPF, I had it converted to .MFM, serial transferred across and started writing the Rawdic imager in less than 10 minutes. Its quite painless at the moment.

Standard DOS Images from a .IPF file are simply done with DIC, no need for WWarp, because it will generate a proper DOS image which you then transfer across and place in your directory.

I only use MFMWarp at the moment because its the most stable warper that RawDIC currently uses, and it works fine with WinUAE, and I've proved it because I've managed to go from an .IPF of Hellbent, to getting it installed thru WHDLoad on a real Amiga, without touching a floppy drive.

A year ago I didn't see the point in CAPS.... I was very very wrong ;)

tomcat666

13 January 2005, 09:50

Galahad - does this mean you could re-start the work on Treasure Trap now, seeing that it is in the CAPS ;-) :

1731 Treasure Trap

Galahad/FLT

13 January 2005, 16:02

As soon as I get an image of Treasure Trap, I will indeed complete it, so for instance if TreasureTrap.IPF (ID:1731) found its way to my inbox at galahadfairlight@yahoo.co.uk, then you are correct Tomcat666, I would be able to do it ;)

Frog

13 January 2005, 16:05

i've done an icon for it... it was planned to be released in a new package "soon"

Galahad/FLT

13 January 2005, 19:25

i've done an icon for it... it was planned to be released in a new package "soon"

'Thanks' for the sarcasm Frank!

Frog

13 January 2005, 19:44

sorry i understand the misunderstanding and i never wanted it consciously. I've effectively done an icon for it and it must be in my next Pygmicons package.

if you're interested i can send it to you

Codetapper

13 January 2005, 20:14

I only use MFMWarp at the moment because its the most stable warper that RawDIC currently uses, and it works fine with WinUAE, and I've proved it because I've managed to go from an .IPF of Hellbent, to getting it installed thru WHDLoad on a real Amiga, without touching a floppy drive.

You are kidding right? WWarp is by far the most stable - MFMWarp will on occassion simply lockup when reading a disk and crash. It's like DMS in that respect, some games just can't be imaged.

WWarp is far safer to use as an intermediate step. And you can go directly from an IPF to WWarp on the Amiga side without needing WinUAE at all! (And I should know, I wrote the MFMWarp, NOMADWarp, ADF and WWarp support for RawDIC).

tomcat666

13 January 2005, 20:22

I tought someone here might have it ;-) Searching for Treasure Trap IPF image high and low without success so far :-( If anyone here has it then it would be really nice if it would find its way to the said mailbox of one knight of the round table ;-)

Codetapper

13 January 2005, 21:46

So long as you only send an image of the game and not the physical disk - otherwise you won't get it back! :(

jotd

13 January 2005, 22:45

Do I detect some malice there :) ?

Codetapper

13 January 2005, 23:29

Well Galahad has about 10 games from various people (and has had for between 1 and 2 years) and ignores all emails about when they will get them back. That's all - as soon as the disks are returned to their rightful owners I will return to my friendly, helpful self! ;)

kametyken

14 January 2005, 00:17

I've upped a (fast) wwarp image of the Treasure Trap disk to my server for anyone who feels qualified to write a WHDLoad slave for this game. I would even consider sending the disk to a qualified slave coder (continental europe only), if this is needed.

Treasure Trap WWarp Image (http://www.gods-country.de/treasuretrap.lha)

Codetapper

14 January 2005, 08:21

Please take heed of this warning and do not send physical disks to Galahad unless you are happy to never see them again.

I would love nothing more than for Galahad to return the disks he has kept and prove me wrong and I would be happy to make a big apology to everyone! The ball is in your court Galahad. Please do the decent thing and backup all the disks with the CAPS tool, upload them to the CAPS server then go to the post office and return them to their rightful owners.

Galahad/FLT

14 January 2005, 17:19

Carlo Pirri has sent me warp of Treasure Trap, now I can finish it.

Galahad/FLT

14 January 2005, 17:22

As for peoples disks, they are quite safe, but packed away for when I move again.

Im not discussing this with you Ian, because basically, its got fuck all to do with you.

I didn't reply to the many emails I got regarding them because I wasn't around to read them. Now I am around, and the disks will be dealt with as and when.

In the meantime, instead of poking your nose into other peoples business (are they your disks?), why not finish off Speedball 2 WHDLoad instead, and channel your efforts into something more worthwhile? 98% and only packaging to do.... get on with it! ;)

Codetapper

14 January 2005, 21:12

There, was that so hard? Why didn't you just tell those guys that sooner instead of ignoring them for 18 months? ;)

BTW you have lots of installs supposedly on 100% complete so people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... And remember, no installs will be accepted anymore without source...

Galahad/FLT

14 January 2005, 22:23

Shouldn't be a condition just because the source code isn't present. I've had to hack my slave for Wolfpack to fix the game, I don't have the source to it until I resource it, which I'm REALLY looking forward to.

And, unlike you, I havent been around, so yes my listing is a little outdated, not that it makes much difference, because I'm pretty sure I listed both Garrison 1 & 2 and Yo! Joe!, but someone else still did them anyway. So lets not get into a debate about glass houses when people keep moving the goal posts!

jotd

15 January 2005, 00:11

BTW you have lots of installs supposedly on 100% complete so people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... And remember, no installs will be accepted anymore without source...

That's good. I wasn't aware of that. I now include source everytime anyway. But what about the "slaves for registered users only, crippled for the others" condition?

Galahad/FLT

15 January 2005, 13:32

Yes, Jeff, whilst I applaud the spreading of the source code (so tossers like me dont have hard drive failure and have to start again!), it makes an absolute mockery of the registered slave process.

On another note, and perhaps its entirely egotistical and selfish, but I spent a lot of work on some of my installs like Dragons Breath for instance, I include the source and anyone can now bastardise the source, or update the source without my involvement (as has happened already). I'm not ready to relinquish my control over my own installs unless I quit completely, in which case anyone who wants the sources to any of my installs/imagers is welcome to them. But it isn't right or fair that you should force people to include it Ian. Especially when 99.99% of the people downloading the install have precisely NO interest or ability to do anything with it. A better suggestion is every install done has the source uploaded with it, and it goes into a separate directory on WHDLoad.DE.

Commented source code makes it easier for people to rip off WHDLoad and the authors of the slaves, if they Resource the code they can still assemble it, but thats assuming they have a clue what its doing.

Just my two cents worth.

IFW

15 January 2005, 14:08

Keeping the sources in a safe place for all the stuff is a good idea, so nothing gets lost if anything happens to anyone or his equipment, so I suggest you go for it, maybe not publically but surely privately do it.

girv

15 January 2005, 19:27

Codetapper

16 January 2005, 08:23

Yes, Jeff, whilst I applaud the spreading of the source code (so tossers like me dont have hard drive failure and have to start again!), it makes an absolute mockery of the registered slave process.

You and Girv are both confused about this. You must upload the source to the normal email address for WHDLoad installs so Wepl can back it up in his archive - you don't have to include it in the lha archive that goes on the website. I don't include my source in the release archives but trust me that Wepl has source backups of ALL my installs.

That way we have a central repository for when WHDLoad authors are MIA (or die in Czeslaw's case!) and the installs don't have to be completely re-done if bugs or new versions are found.

@Galahad: The case of me re-doing Primal Rage was because you were not around to answer emails about it and after 1+ year of the buggy install being around I updated it. If you check your old emails you will see the (multiple) bug reports about it.

girv

16 January 2005, 14:52

I'm not confused about the policy - I know the intention wasn't to spread sources to the public. I was just stating that I personally don't want this to happen to my stuff unless I go MIA :)

FYI my backup policy is every time I'm finished a WHDLoad session I type "smake bak" which lha's up the entire project subdirectory and copies it to another partition. This is then FTP'd to the PC and from there sneakernet'd to my work PC and from there to a mirror RAID file server. Release versions go through the same process but also email the release and source archives to Wepl and add full installed versions of each version of the game to the various backups. Once a month(ish) I'll also archive my entire DH0 and DH1 partitions.

Safe enough for ya ;) ?

Codetapper

16 January 2005, 21:57

If the "release versions" email the release and source archives to Wepl, what exactly is the difference between attaching the install archive vs attaching the install + source archive at the time you upload it?

Nobody will touch the source unless your installs have bugs/unsupported versions and you are uncontactable for a long period of time.

All I am trying to do is to ensure every game has source so there is no chance of losing anything! I'm sure Galahad especially can appreciate what time could have been saved if he had shared his source before the HD problems...

Galahad/FLT

16 January 2005, 23:37

Yeah, like I'm psychic like that! Hindsight, ideal world, if only, and lots of other pointless phrases I could conjure up after the event.

girv

17 January 2005, 00:38

If the "release versions" email the release and source archives to Wepl, what exactly is the difference between attaching the install archive vs attaching the install + source archive at the time you upload it?

The source is in a separate archive so it doesn't become publically available on whdload.de when the installer archive is added ... unless I've missed something ?

eg:
<tapetty tappety clik test done yay>
email HardDrivinWHD.lha and HardDrivinWHD_src.lha to Wepl
Wepl adds HardDrivinWHD.lha to whdload.de main page
Wepl secures HardDrivinWHD_src.lha in the Secret Backup Vault
Joe Public Amiga User can only download HardDrivinWHD.lha
HardDrivinWHD.lha contains only binaries no source code

Codetapper

17 January 2005, 01:33

Yup, you got it Girv! Also, Secret Backup Vault regularly backed up and secured in Wepl's WHDLoad dungeon of doom...

Galahad/FLT

17 January 2005, 20:03

I could have done with the Dungeon of Doom, instead I picked the Hard drive made of pastry! :(

jotd

27 January 2005, 00:54

Getting OT here but my less-than-two-cents worth position on the slave source issue would be similar to Galahad's. I've spent many a late night working on my few installs (Codetapper will vouch for that!) and I'm not willing to make the sources public for my own selfish reasons, quite apart from any problems slave sources being "in the wild" may cause. I'm sending them to Wepl with releases (in a separate archive) as a backup along with a licence for the "WHDLoad Administrators" to do what they want with them IF AND ONLY IF I disappear from the scene; but until then I'd like them to remain non-public.

For the same reasons (spending a long while trying to make the install work) I'm willing to share my sources with other people so they can read my source and say: that's a nice piece of source code :)

I don't think that malevolent people would care to change the source, and if they did, what do I care, as long as they're not accepted as an official update of the same game under a different author's name.
But if the slave can be useful to patch another undone game, that's fine by me.