Piracy Chestnut again.

Mikey_C · 27 April 2009, 13:46

Hello all, this is a continuation of another thread elsewhere on EAB........ (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=43286 (The GREAT Amiga Bring and Buy sale Event. (UK)))

As a user group ANT, does not condone piracy, Yeah, what's happened in the past in terms of piracy has been discussed to death elsewhere and I am posting this here to avoid the original thread being polluted

Some people here may be surprised to know that most ANT members run E-UAE or some form of old Amiga Emulation and yes, some of us do run old titles that are classified as "Abandonware".

Whilst I appreciate that quite a lot the stuff is now pretty much abandonware, and indeed, a lot of is now "Legal to download" there is still the odd title or two which is still being commercially sold and is still "Current" - As current as the Amiga scene can be defined anyway!

This would include stuff such as Digital Universe, Hollywood, BOH and a few other titles. Additionally, Hyperion-Entertainment stuff is still pretty much a no go to current Amiga users, Without Hyperion, we wouldn't have OS4.x and SAM hardware to run it on, therefore, it just wouldn't be cricket to stab the very people who are keeping our hobby going. This equally applies to stuff that you can still buy and keep an Amiga trader going, such as Amigakit or Forematt home computing.

Mikey C
Amiga North Thames Chairman.

TCD · 27 April 2009, 13:51

Not sure at whom you're poking, but I mostly agree with the statement. Maybe this is more Amiga scene related and not so much a general retrogaming discussion.

Graham Humphrey · 27 April 2009, 13:52

In fairness this is pretty much the policy EAB adopts when it comes to uploading and linking to things.

Oh and I'm sure you all know that "abandonware" doesn't actually exist

Mikey_C · 27 April 2009, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

In fairness this is pretty much the policy EAB adopts when it comes to uploading and linking to things.

Oh and I'm sure you all know that "abandonware" doesn't actually exist

Yes, I know it doesn't actually exist, but it is the only term that fits!

DH · 27 April 2009, 14:02

True GH

The term 'abandonware' seems to be made up for the purpose of software that is no longer for sale, exactly what the status is for this software is anyones guess. I agree some is still being sold and holds a copyright, but, so does the so called 'abandonware' but it seems to be wavered in one sense to allow people to enjoy the fruits of the retro-gaming world

Boo Boo · 27 April 2009, 14:08

I realy dont think 10 year old software matters and EAB DoesnT allow software still being sold or keys to be uploaded also including Kickstarts and Workbench.

:If we had to buy original classic Amiga games it would be very elitist and prices would shoot up.

Akira · 27 April 2009, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey_C

Yes, I know it doesn't actually exist, but it is the only term that fits!

It's the only term that fits pirates that have a problem of guilt with the act of pirating old games

DDNI · 27 April 2009, 22:16

Hmmm Piracy.

As a kid I pirated everything...

Now in the second age of my Amiga crusade, I pay for all that is current.

WHDLoad, Ibrowse, WarpDT etc

Would I pirate OS4.x? NO
Would I pirate BOH? NO

Why?

Because rightly or wrongly I see these as endeavours that involve real people. As a youth I never associated my piracy with theft.

Paul_s · 27 April 2009, 23:16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandon...t_of_copyright

and with some of these businesses no longer here with us... who in their right mind would sue a group of die hards like us for running a piece of software fast approaching 20 years old? It would cost them more in legal fees et al than the cost to us.

If software was still for sale i.e. on a shelf I'd have no problem in buying it (Seriously - and I used to buy boxed originals in the 1990s for stuff I actually enjoyed playing). But, where else can I pick it up as an original apart from eBay - and even then, the money doesn't go to the original developer...

I have an idea, let's blame Pirate Bay

ant512 · 29 May 2009, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_s

and with some of these businesses no longer here with us... who in their right mind would sue a group of die hards like us for running a piece of software fast approaching 20 years old?

APC&TCP?

Akira · 29 May 2009, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant512

APC&TCP?

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

ImmortalA1000 · 06 July 2009, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

Do APC & TCP have rights to use and produce distributed copies of Kickstart ROMs and Workbench OS then? Because they include it in their products sold with UAE.

TCD · 06 July 2009, 18:33

You mean Cloanto right? Yes, they have the rights to do that.

ImmortalA1000 · 06 July 2009, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

You mean Cloanto right? Yes, they have the rights to do that.

Cloanto are one and the same as the makers of Flyin' High and Marbelous? ie the owners and sellers of products on the company website of....

http://www.apc-tcp.de/

??

TCD · 06 July 2009, 18:50

No... Didn't know that APC & TCP sells anything that bundles (Win)UAE and WB/KS. Which product do you mean?

ImmortalA1000 · 06 July 2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

No... Didn't know that APC & TCP sells anything that bundles (Win)UAE and WB/KS. Which product do you mean?

http://www.apc-tcp.de/support/0034e.php

There is a CD compilation there with 700+ games (vol 3 has 1000) but on the official owners e'bay account he clearly states UAE is included with a full workbench installation to run directly on a PC too.

So whilst Amiga Forever IS licensed as I know because it is by Cloanto, are these other compilations allowed to have fully working UAE setups on a CD as well as clearly that is Amiga Inc's IP

Retro-Nerd · 06 July 2009, 18:55

Looks like ImmortalA1000 missunderstood the jokes of ant512 and Akira. Cloanto have the WB/KS distribution rights, nothing more. APC & TCP has nothing to do with it.

ImmortalA1000 · 06 July 2009, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Looks like ImmortalA1000 missunderstood the jokes of ant512 and Akira. Cloanto have the WB/KS distribution rights, nothing more. APC & TCP has nothing to do with it.

Sorry no I know it was a completely separate question and a bit off topic I realise this. I have seen some comments in bold red writing about this company on this site, things like how they're actively legally protecting their IP/Copyright on their games etc so found it interesting that

a. They include presumably unlicensed KS/WB files on their games compilations (which I doubt they have asked for permission for every one of 1000s on each CD to produce legally seeing as even Cloanto haven't done that to 100% satisfaction)

b. They are overprotective of games produced by themselves everywhere.

c. They rely on GNU General Licence Public software to make money with nothing presumably given back to the developers of UAE in any flavour.

I know copyright on software can be extended indefinitely according to changes in the copyright laws of the EU...maybe if they are not so angelic they need to remove these products from sale or start paying Amiga Inc a few 100,000 euros in back payments

TCD · 06 July 2009, 19:16

Hmm, so you are sure that there are KS/WB files on these CDs? If so, I'm sure AndreasM has a good explanation...

ImmortalA1000 · 06 July 2009, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Hmm, so you are sure that there are KS/WB files on these CDs? If so, I'm sure AndreasM has a good explanation...

Yes clearly stated in the descr as having installed copy of Workbench for UAE to play the 1000s of games on a PC.

If these are unlicensed workbench files and kickstart roms boy I don't think I will ever laugh as much, not even after looking at Spectrum games when I had a C64 in my youth

:

27 April 2009, 13:46	#1
Mikey_C Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Barnet/London Age: 47 Posts: 218	Piracy Chestnut again. Hello all, this is a continuation of another thread elsewhere on EAB........ (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=43286 (The GREAT Amiga Bring and Buy sale Event. (UK))) As a user group ANT, does not condone piracy, Yeah, what's happened in the past in terms of piracy has been discussed to death elsewhere and I am posting this here to avoid the original thread being polluted Some people here may be surprised to know that most ANT members run E-UAE or some form of old Amiga Emulation and yes, some of us do run old titles that are classified as "Abandonware". Whilst I appreciate that quite a lot the stuff is now pretty much abandonware, and indeed, a lot of is now "Legal to download" there is still the odd title or two which is still being commercially sold and is still "Current" - As current as the Amiga scene can be defined anyway! This would include stuff such as Digital Universe, Hollywood, BOH and a few other titles. Additionally, Hyperion-Entertainment stuff is still pretty much a no go to current Amiga users, Without Hyperion, we wouldn't have OS4.x and SAM hardware to run it on, therefore, it just wouldn't be cricket to stab the very people who are keeping our hobby going. This equally applies to stuff that you can still buy and keep an Amiga trader going, such as Amigakit or Forematt home computing. Mikey C Amiga North Thames Chairman.

27 April 2009, 13:51	#2
TCD Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 35 Posts: 22,642	Not sure at whom you're poking, but I mostly agree with the statement. Maybe this is more Amiga scene related and not so much a general retrogaming discussion. __________________ "I am Polka and that's why I don't like accordions" - CrazyOne, April 2013

27 April 2009, 13:52	#3
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 26 Posts: 9,699	In fairness this is pretty much the policy EAB adopts when it comes to uploading and linking to things. Oh and I'm sure you all know that "abandonware" doesn't actually exist __________________ The EAB/Lemon Amiga Super League \| Round 7 - Risky Woods Lemon Amiga is now on YouTube and Facebook!

27 April 2009, 14:02	#5
DH Global Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 3,441	True GH The term 'abandonware' seems to be made up for the purpose of software that is no longer for sale, exactly what the status is for this software is anyones guess. I agree some is still being sold and holds a copyright, but, so does the so called 'abandonware' but it seems to be wavered in one sense to allow people to enjoy the fruits of the retro-gaming world __________________ CiA FORUM - CiA WEBSITE

27 April 2009, 22:16	#8
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 4,551	Hmmm Piracy. As a kid I pirated everything... Now in the second age of my Amiga crusade, I pay for all that is current. WHDLoad, Ibrowse, WarpDT etc Would I pirate OS4.x? NO Would I pirate BOH? NO Why? Because rightly or wrongly I see these as endeavours that involve real people. As a youth I never associated my piracy with theft. __________________ A1200D Blizzard 1230 MKIV 50Mhz 32mb RAM, 4GB HDD, CWB Full. AmigaOne X1000 AmigaOS.net The home of AmigaOS Twitter @AllanU74 _/-\| \|\/\| \| (-, \|-\_

27 April 2009, 14:08	#6
Boo Boo HONEY Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: south Posts: 2,597	I realy dont think 10 year old software matters and EAB DoesnT allow software still being sold or keys to be uploaded also including Kickstarts and Workbench. :If we had to buy original classic Amiga games it would be very elitist and prices would shoot up.

27 April 2009, 23:16	#9
Paul_s Stuck in 1985 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Amigaville Age: 35 Posts: 2,846	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandon...t_of_copyright and with some of these businesses no longer here with us... who in their right mind would sue a group of die hards like us for running a piece of software fast approaching 20 years old? It would cost them more in legal fees et al than the cost to us. If software was still for sale i.e. on a shelf I'd have no problem in buying it (Seriously - and I used to buy boxed originals in the 1990s for stuff I actually enjoyed playing). But, where else can I pick it up as an original apart from eBay - and even then, the money doesn't go to the original developer... I have an idea, let's blame Pirate Bay __________________ Memotech MX512 with optional Kelly LeBrock barbie doll generator...

06 July 2009, 18:33	#13
TCD Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 35 Posts: 22,642	You mean Cloanto right? Yes, they have the rights to do that. __________________ "I am Polka and that's why I don't like accordions" - CrazyOne, April 2013

06 July 2009, 18:50	#15
TCD Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 35 Posts: 22,642	No... Didn't know that APC & TCP sells anything that bundles (Win)UAE and WB/KS. Which product do you mean? __________________ "I am Polka and that's why I don't like accordions" - CrazyOne, April 2013

06 July 2009, 18:55	#17
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 41 Posts: 8,409	Looks like ImmortalA1000 missunderstood the jokes of ant512 and Akira. Cloanto have the WB/KS distribution rights, nothing more. APC & TCP has nothing to do with it.

06 July 2009, 19:16	#19
TCD Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 35 Posts: 22,642	Hmm, so you are sure that there are KS/WB files on these CDs? If so, I'm sure AndreasM has a good explanation... __________________ "I am Polka and that's why I don't like accordions" - CrazyOne, April 2013

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